Own Your Experience: Confidence and Security After Job Loss - Episode Hero Image

Own Your Experience: Confidence and Security After Job Loss

Begin Again with Davina McCall · · Listen to Original Episode →
Original Title: Laura Brown: Life After Getting Fired Is Better Than You Think!

TL;DR

  • Owning one's experiences, even negative ones like being fired, cultivates confidence and security, preventing the debilitating effects of obfuscation and enabling forward progression.
  • Women may experience greater difficulty after job loss due to societal conditioning and a longer historical struggle for workplace parity, leading to internalized shame.
  • Proactively building a personal brand and maintaining professional networks outside of a specific role provides an "insurance policy" against industry shifts and unexpected exits.
  • In the immediate aftermath of job loss, asserting agency by not signing severance papers without review empowers individuals to negotiate for better terms and resources.
  • Financial precarity is a primary concern after job loss, but practical steps like using cash for spending and openly communicating financial needs to friends can mitigate stress.
  • Viewing job loss not as a failure but as a potential catalyst for re-evaluation can lead to increased personal happiness by identifying and pursuing more fulfilling career paths.

Deep Dive

Laura Brown, former editor-in-chief of InStyle, shares her journey of navigating career setbacks and finding a fresh start after being fired. She discusses how women often grapple with self-doubt in the workplace, emphasizing the critical importance of confidence and owning one's experiences to reframe setbacks. Brown also touches on understanding one's intrinsic value and the necessity of standing firm even when facing adversity.

The discussion then shifts to Laura Brown's early career and work ethic, detailing how, at around 16 or 17, she proactively sought work experience in fashion magazines. She recounts calling a magazine in Sydney off her own initiative, highlighting that in the early 1990s, without widespread internet access, such direct approaches were necessary. Brown explains that this drive continued through college, where she took any internship available, even finishing her degree by correspondence to prioritize work experience. This "give it a go" attitude, she suggests, is a characteristic that facilitated her move to London on a one-way ticket, driven by a desire to be part of global fashion and media.

Moving to the topic of women and confidence, the source explores how women may carry shame or choose to internalize it when facing job loss. This is attributed to the longer time it has historically taken women to reach professional heights and the feeling of a harder fall when they slip from their positions. Brown notes that many workplace structures, such as corner offices and executive titles, originated from male-dominated spheres, contributing to this disparity. Despite this, she expresses a personal stance against perpetuating the idea that being a woman in the workplace is inherently difficult, advocating instead for owning all experiences, both positive and negative, as a more honest and ultimately easier path.

The conversation then delves into the concept of ownership and its connection to confidence and ego. Brown argues that owning one's difficult experiences, rather than obfuscating or spinning them, is attractive and builds confidence. She believes women need to embrace their ego, both in successes and failures, as this allows them to process and move forward without being weighed down by external narratives. Ownership of one's career experiences, particularly after leaving a job, is presented as a subversive act that garners appreciation for honesty and boldness.

Laura Brown recounts her career progression, including her move to New York in September 2001, just before the September 11th attacks. She describes the surreal experience of arriving in the city amidst fashion week and then the profound impact of the subsequent events. Brown theorizes that shock can act as a form of armor, enabling individuals to function in immediate crisis situations, a concept she links to resilience. She shares how, despite the global upheaval, she chose to stay in New York, relying on her savings and taking on freelance work, processing the trauma over time.

The narrative then touches upon Brown's experience working for Harvey Weinstein at Talk magazine for six weeks before its closure, describing it as a brief but notable encounter. She then details her subsequent eight years at Harper's Bazaar under Glenda Bailey, where she honed her skills in celebrity wrangling and creative direction, learning the importance of bold concepts and generating attention. This period, she explains, laid a significant foundation for her career.

Brown then discusses her appointment as editor of InStyle in August 2016, a role she describes as the "story job" she was programmed to want. She notes that InStyle at the time had a traditional, Hollywood-centric image. However, her tenure coincided with significant global events, including the election of Donald Trump, the COVID-19 pandemic, and racial unrest. She deliberately aimed to change the magazine's culture, focusing on attention for the right reasons and featuring individuals with important things to say, rather than solely relying on celebrity endorsements for advertising revenue.

A key initiative discussed is the "Badass Women" series, which Brown launched. She recounts pushing back against suggestions to rename it, emphasizing the power of the word "ass" on a magazine cover. The series featured prominent women like Serena Williams and aimed to celebrate women doing impactful work across various fields, from celebrities to astronauts. Brown organized "badass dinners" to foster community and connection among these women, highlighting the universal desire for community, stimulation, and appreciation.

Brown reflects on her proudest achievements at InStyle, including bold cover choices such as featuring Dr. Fauci and reenacting a famous 1950s photograph with artists during the early days of COVID-19 to convey a sense of togetherness. She reiterates her disdain for the traditional economies of magazines, which she felt were often driven by outdated fashion norms and an emphasis on aspirational consumerism. Brown asserts that she maintained a degree of critical distance, recognizing the industry's potential for both inspiration and pretentiousness, and avoided getting lost in its superficial aspects.

The discussion then shifts to the demise of traditional media, with Brown and the host acknowledging their luck in experiencing the "greatest time in fashion" and television. Brown elaborates on the changing media landscape, explaining that she consciously built her personal brand outside of her editorial roles, using her Instagram following as a form of "insurance." She recognized that her professional future might involve working for herself and registered her own business, LB Media, in 2020, a move she describes as instinctive rather than part of a rigid five-year plan.

Brown recounts the experience of being fired from InStyle along with her entire team via Zoom in February 2022, noting that this occurred unexpectedly, earlier than she had anticipated leaving. She describes the immediate aftermath, including the logistical scramble to save contact information before systems were shut down. Brown then addressed her team, encouraging them to own their experiences and not let the termination diminish their value, a sentiment that later became the core message of their book.

Following her termination, Brown received an outpouring of support, which she likens to eulogies, but she specifically states she does not want pity. She highlights a message from a reader who felt included by her work, emphasizing the positive impact of her career. Brown notes that the understanding of one's ability and the fickle nature of many industries today mean that job losses are often not personal. She also mentions her upcoming marriage as a distraction during this period.

The conversation then focuses on the financial and practical implications of job loss, particularly in the United States where healthcare is tied to employment. Brown stresses the vulnerability this creates and the importance of the book as a roadmap and a source of support. She advises taking time to review severance papers, seeking legal counsel if necessary, and asking for what one deserves, such as extended healthcare or equipment. She also suggests practical financial strategies, like using cash for groceries to increase spending awareness, and being honest with friends about financial limitations to find more affordable activities.

Brown emphasizes that no one has a monopoly on being fired and that reaching out to others who have experienced similar situations can reduce feelings of isolation and shame. She shares how Oprah Winfrey, despite her current immense success, was fired early in her career. Brown recounts securing Oprah's contribution to the book by leveraging past professional interactions and highlights Oprah's own story of being fired from a news anchor role at age 23 due to racism and an old boys' network.

The discussion includes a detailed account of Oprah Winfrey'

Action Items

  • Draft "ownership of experience" framework: Define 3 core principles for valuing personal career setbacks as assets.
  • Audit personal financial resilience: Calculate 3-6 months of living expenses and identify 2-3 immediate savings opportunities.
  • Create a "professional network activation" plan: List 5-7 key contacts for potential future support or collaboration.
  • Develop a "skill inventory and update" process: Schedule quarterly updates for resume and LinkedIn profile with 3-5 key achievements.
  • Analyze career path for happiness drivers: Identify 2-3 activities or roles that consistently increase job satisfaction.

Related Episodes

Key Quotes

"every bit of experience you have is like a sort of a platform you stand on and then you get taller and taller and taller and taller and taller the only one who forgets that is you your value is yours don't give it away"

Laura Brown emphasizes that accumulated experience builds a foundation for growth, and it is crucial for individuals to remember their inherent value. She argues that this value is intrinsic and should not be diminished or forgotten, even when facing setbacks.

"we didn't construct the workplace mend it you know remember think all of the things like the corner office the ceo cfo cmo that's all military terms it's all dude stuff you know and uh and it just did take us so much longer to get there and we're still i saw a statistic the other day still paid 81 cents on the dollar -- for a man"

Laura Brown points out that traditional workplace structures and terminology are often rooted in male-dominated histories, contributing to the longer struggle for women to attain leadership positions. She highlights the persistent gender pay gap as evidence of this systemic challenge.

"what i love is um that owning something -- and it's something that i think is the same for men and women when somebody can just own something that is difficult it's attractive right it's confidence it's confidence there's ego in it yes you know and there's certainly -- and i think women need to have more ego in everything and even the good and the bad you know what i mean because this means that you can take it and you're not it comes some in some ways ownership comes from security"

Laura Brown suggests that embracing ownership of one's experiences, particularly difficult ones, is an attractive quality that signifies confidence and security. She advocates for women to possess more ego, allowing them to take responsibility for both positive and negative outcomes.

"the only one who forgets that is you and the only one who gets gives that away is you and uh and so that was you know for us when we instagrammed that with this title you know all the cool girls get fired not thinking we were gonna write a book but just being like fuck this we got fired okay"

Laura Brown explains that individuals are the sole agents responsible for forgetting their own accumulated experience and value. She recounts how this realization, coupled with a defiant attitude after being fired, led to the initial idea for their book.

"shock is an armor you don't really i was like obviously an absolute shock and thank god like i'd no one i knew was harmed i was fine to my mother this horrendous september 11th as horrendous as it was it looked like world war iii yes on the telly so she but she was like you need to come home and a lot of australians were leaving but i was like oh i've just got here haven't i and i'm just at christies getting my can tuner and calling my mom on my blackberry like i just you just and even that particular night that was so what was so insane about the that night of september 11th everyone was out like everyone was like there were people coming from downtown covered in ash who just had gone to a bar or something because everyone was in absolute shock"

Laura Brown posits that shock can act as a protective mechanism, enabling individuals to function during traumatic events. She shares her personal experience during 9/11, where the immediate shock prevented her from fully processing the horror, allowing her to continue with daily tasks.

"i remember i had a bit of i had a wobbly about like two and a half weeks later i think a friend of mine from london called me and i remember that sort of moment when you're like oh god shit this is what we've all delayed shock lived through but i think i think the armor of shock is sometimes underrated you know it can help you it pulls you to function in the situation when maybe if it had all sunk in you wouldn't have i mean that's probably what people call resilience isn't it it's yeah yeah it's like i've got through that it's something in your body and your i don't know adrenals or something that just goes okay you're going to be fetal in a minute but hold on"

Laura Brown reflects on the delayed impact of shock, suggesting that its initial protective function can eventually give way to emotional processing. She equates this ability to push through difficult moments to resilience, highlighting the body's innate capacity to cope with overwhelming situations.

Resources

External Resources

Books

  • "Life After Getting Fired Is Better Than You Think!" by Laura Brown and Christina O'Neill - Mentioned as a roadmap and hug for navigating career setbacks and providing tools for financial and mental well-being.

People

  • Laura Brown - Former editor-in-chief of InStyle, author, and guest on the podcast discussing her journey after being fired and the importance of owning one's experiences.
  • Christina O'Neill - Co-author of "Life After Getting Fired Is Better Than You Think!" and former editor-in-chief of WSJ Magazine.
  • Oprah Winfrey - Mentioned as an example of someone who experienced being fired early in her career and went on to achieve immense success.
  • Gail King - Mentioned as a friend and colleague of Oprah Winfrey who was present during Oprah's early career setback.
  • Harvey Weinstein - Mentioned as a former employer of Laura Brown at Talk magazine.
  • Glenda Bailey - Mentioned as a former boss of Laura Brown at Harper's Bazaar.
  • Ron Lieber - Mentioned as the New York Times money columnist and author of advice on increasing happiness and decreasing unhappiness in one's career.
  • Bucky Kitty - Mentioned as an HR expert friend who provided insights into why women may carry shame after being fired.
  • Melvin Sokolsky - Mentioned as a photographer known in the 60s, associated with a shoot for Talk magazine.
  • Gabriel Macht - Mentioned as an actor who was part of a photoshoot for Talk magazine before it closed.
  • Serena Williams - Mentioned as the first person featured in Laura Brown's "Badass Women" initiative.
  • Dr. Fauci - Mentioned as someone Laura Brown put on the cover of a magazine during the COVID-19 pandemic.
  • Biden - Mentioned as someone featured on a magazine cover by Laura Brown.
  • Obama - Mentioned as someone featured on a magazine cover by Laura Brown.
  • Rebel Wilson - Mentioned in relation to a comment from a boss about testing people.
  • Lisa Kudrow - Mentioned as an example of an exceptional woman who experienced being fired.
  • Carol Burnett - Mentioned as an example of an exceptional woman who experienced being fired.
  • Tarana Burke - Mentioned as an example of an exceptional woman who experienced being fired.

Organizations

  • InStyle - Former publication where Laura Brown served as editor-in-chief.
  • Talk magazine - Mentioned as a publication where Laura Brown worked briefly before it closed.
  • Harper's Bazaar - Publication where Laura Brown and Christina O'Neill worked together.
  • Time Inc. - Former media company that owned InStyle.
  • Meredith - Publisher that acquired Time Inc. and InStyle.
  • Dotdash - Publisher that acquired InStyle at the end of 2021.
  • New York Post - Publication where Libby Callaway worked as fashion editor.
  • New York Magazine - Mentioned as a publication Laura Brown read while living in Sydney.
  • Vogue - Mentioned as a publication Laura Brown read while living in Sydney.
  • Harper's Bazaar - Mentioned as a publication Laura Brown read while living in Sydney.
  • The New York Times - Publication where Ron Lieber works as a money columnist.
  • Subaru - Mentioned as a sponsor of the "Share the Love" event.
  • Nordstrom Rack - Mentioned as a retailer offering holiday savings.
  • Jack Daniels - Mentioned as a sponsor of the episode, with a connection to music and craft.
  • Meyer - Mentioned as a retailer offering holiday savings.
  • Mint Mobile - Mentioned as a sponsor offering holiday deals on wireless service.
  • Ancient + Brave - Mentioned as a sponsor with a website and promo code.
  • Aura Frames - Mentioned as a sponsor offering frames for photos.
  • Venmo - Mentioned as a payment service offering cash back.
  • Sprite - Mentioned as a beverage with a winter spiced cranberry flavor.
  • Make-A-Wish - Charity supported by the Subaru Share the Love event.
  • Legal Zoom - Service mentioned for registering a business.
  • Models One - Mentioned as a model agency where the speaker worked as a booker.

Websites & Online Resources

  • aura frames dot co dot uk - Website for Aura Frames, mentioned with a promo code.
  • subaru dot com slash share - Website for Subaru to learn more about the Share the Love event.
  • venmo.com/terms - Website for Venmo terms and exclusions.
  • megaphone.fm/adchoices - Mentioned in relation to ad choices.
  • ancientandbrave.earth/pages/planet - Website for Ancient + Brave, mentioned with a promo code.

Other Resources

  • "Badass Women" - An initiative started by Laura Brown to celebrate and highlight women doing cool things.
  • "Begin Again" - The podcast series featuring the episode.
  • "InStyle" - Magazine where Laura Brown was editor-in-chief.
  • "Talk magazine" - Magazine where Laura Brown worked briefly.
  • "Harper's Bazaar" - Magazine where Laura Brown and Christina O'Neill worked.
  • "In Style" - Magazine where Laura Brown was editor-in-chief.
  • "WSJ Magazine" - Magazine where Christina O'Neill was editor-in-chief.
  • "The New York Post" - Newspaper where Libby Callaway worked.
  • "New York Magazine" - Magazine mentioned in the text.
  • "Vogue" - Magazine mentioned in the text.
  • "The New York Times" - Newspaper mentioned in the text.
  • "The 6 o'clock news" - Mentioned in relation to Oprah Winfrey's early career.
  • "The New York Times money column" - Mentioned as a source of advice from Ron Lieber.
  • "LB Media LLC" - Laura Brown's registered business.
  • "Ostrich eggs" - Mentioned as a concept for a photoshoot.
  • "The glass ceiling" - Mentioned in the context of women in the workplace.
  • "The corner office, CEO, CFO, CMO" - Mentioned as "dude stuff" in the context of workplace structures.
  • "The media landscape" - Discussed as changing and evolving.
  • "The job market" - Discussed in terms of troubleshooting.
  • "The industry" - General term used to refer to the fashion and media industries.
  • "The economy of magazines" - Discussed as a reason for Laura Brown's departure from traditional magazine work.
  • "The changing media industry" - Discussed as a factor in career shifts.
  • "The value of oneself" - A recurring theme related to career setbacks.
  • "The shock of being fired" - Discussed as a psychological armor.
  • "Financial planning" - Discussed as a crucial aspect of recovery after job loss.
  • "Healthcare" - Discussed as a significant factor in job security, particularly in the US.
  • "Mental health" - Highlighted as an important consideration after job loss.
  • "Networking" - Emphasized as a way to maintain connections and find new opportunities.
  • "Legal advice" - Mentioned as a resource for understanding severance and potential cases.
  • "Resume building" - Advised as an ongoing practice for career preparedness.
  • "LinkedIn profile" - Recommended to be kept up-to-date as an insurance policy.
  • "Contact lists" - Mentioned as important to save before losing access to work systems.
  • "The concept of 'firing yourself'" - Discussed as a proactive career strategy.
  • "The importance of honesty and boldness" - Highlighted as attractive qualities in the face of adversity.
  • "The feeling of being fired" - Described as universally negative, regardless of financial status.
  • "The power of asking for what you deserve" - Encouraged in severance negotiations.
  • "The value of a minute to think" - Advised before signing any termination papers.
  • "Increasing happiness and decreasing unhappiness" - A key question for career reflection.
  • "The ritual of jobs" - Discussed as a potential rut that can be broken by unexpected change.
  • "The beach versus the stinky sandpit" - An analogy for finding more fulfilling career paths.
  • "Insurance policies" - Metaphor for proactive career preparation.
  • "Reading the room" - A skill for anticipating industry changes.
  • "The humanizing effect of honesty" - Discussed in the context of sharing personal setbacks.
  • "The feeling of inclusion" - Mentioned as a positive impact of Laura Brown's work.
  • "The power in a photograph" - Discussed in relation to a specific Oprah Winfrey image.
  • "The concept of 'all hands meetings'" - Often associated with layoffs.
  • "The concept of 'work experience'/'interning'" - Discussed in relation to Laura Brown's early career.
  • "The concept of 'guilelessness'" - Described as an Australian quality.
  • "The concept of 'ownership of experiences'" - Emphasized as a personal asset.
  • "The concept of 'self-doubt'" - Discussed as a challenge for women in the workplace.
  • "The concept of 'confidence'" - Linked to owning difficult experiences.
  • "The concept of 'ego'" - Discussed in relation to self-worth and confidence.
  • "The concept of 'security'" - Mentioned as a foundation for ownership.
  • "The concept of 'obfuscation or spin'" - Described as debilitating.
  • "The concept of 'subversive action'" - Used to describe owning up to job loss.
  • "The concept of 'pride in loss'" - A paradoxical but powerful feeling.
  • "The concept of 'media morphing'" - The changing nature of the media industry.
  • "The concept of 'platforms'" - Metaphor for accumulated experience.
  • "The concept of 'psychological doorway'" - Opened by sharing experiences of being fired.
  • "The concept of 'shock as armor'" - A theory about coping mechanisms.
  • "The concept of 'resilience'" - Linked to the ability to function during difficult times.
  • "The concept of 'adrenals'" - Mentioned in relation to the body's response to shock.
  • "The concept of 'dream job'" - A goal achieved by Laura Brown.
  • "The concept of 'death knell for magazines'" - A humorous self-description by Laura Brown.
  • "The concept of 'emerging young Hollywood'" - A photoshoot theme.
  • "The concept of 'all hands meeting'" - Often signals layoffs.
  • **"The concept of 'catering

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