Progress of Insight: Mapping Meditation Stages to End Suffering

Key Quotes

"Meditation can be gorgeous... and it can be absolutely bewildering. If you've ever wondered, "Am I doing this right?" or "Why does this feel so intense?", this conversation is for you."

Dan Harris introduces the conversation by acknowledging the common experience of meditation being both beautiful and confusing. This sets the stage for a discussion that aims to clarify the practice, particularly for those who may feel uncertain or overwhelmed.

"In this vintage conversation from 2016, Dan sits down with legendary dharma teacher Steve Armstrong for a clear, compassionate walkthrough of the progress of insight--including why meditation sometimes gets harder before it gets easier, how to navigate the so-called "dark night" phases, and how to keep going without getting lost in the weeds of self-doubt."

This quote highlights the core content of the episode: a discussion on the "progress of insight" in meditation with Steve Armstrong. It specifically mentions challenging aspects like meditation becoming harder and navigating "dark night" phases, indicating a focus on practical guidance through difficult stages of practice.

"Steve has guided thousands of students through the twists and turns of practice with uncommon precision, humor, and heart. And now, the community has the chance to support him in return. Steve is currently living with a brain tumor, and he and his wife Kamala Masters (a formidable dharma teacher in her own right, who has also been a guest on this show) are facing significant medical and caregiving costs."

Dan Harris emphasizes Steve Armstrong's extensive experience and compassionate teaching style. He then pivots to a personal appeal for support, revealing Armstrong's current health challenges and the financial burden he and his wife are facing, framing the episode as an opportunity for the community to reciprocate his guidance.

"The Manual of Insight was actually written by a guy named Mahasi Sayadaw and you were the managing editor of translating this. Who is Mahasi Sayadaw?"

Dan Harris identifies the source material for the discussion, "The Manual of Insight," and asks for clarification on its author, Mahasi Sayadaw. This establishes Armstrong's expertise as a translator and his deep connection to this specific Buddhist text.

"Mahasi Sayadaw was a very well known both scholar and practitioner in Burma in the last century... he was responsible for codifying and correcting the whole Pali Canon... he made a very lengthy study and practice very succinct and available accessible to lay people."

Steve Armstrong explains the significance of Mahasi Sayadaw, detailing his scholarly and practical contributions to Buddhism. Armstrong highlights Sayadaw's role in standardizing Buddhist texts and, crucially, his ability to make complex practices accessible to non-monastic practitioners.

"So enlightenment, nirvana, liberation, purification of mind--all of these terms that get thrown around that are pretty grandiose and kind of interesting and mysterious at the same time--all of that you're saying is just a fancy way of talking about something very normal, which is meditation practice at an advanced level shows you allows you to see your actual life as it's unfolding right now..."

Steve Armstrong clarifies the often grandiose terms associated with enlightenment, reframing them as the natural outcome of advanced meditation practice. He emphasizes that it's about seeing one's current life with clarity, free from suffering and entanglement, rather than an otherworldly or mystical attainment.

"The first knowledge is you know that you have a mind and a body. Yeah. And you know that in every moment something is being known. This is basic awareness. Okay. So maybe I've hit this. Yeah. Oh yeah, for moments. But there's a lot of time we're just living life and we don't we don't really pay attention to what we're doing. We're on automatic pilot most of our lives."

Steve Armstrong begins to outline the stages of insight, starting with the "knowledge of mind and body." He explains this as a fundamental awareness of existence, contrasting it with the common state of being on "automatic pilot" where attention is not fully engaged with present experience.

"The fourth is a significant stage in practice. It's called arising and passing away. Okay. So I think I've had the first three. And I've heard of the arising and passing away, sometimes referred to as the A and P. And this is the fireworks. These are the fireworks."

Dan Harris identifies the "arising and passing away" stage as a significant and exciting phase in the progress of insight. He uses the metaphor of "fireworks" to describe the intense experiences that can occur at this point in the practice.

"The spiritual goodies arise because you have good practice, but as soon as they arise, they become an object of indulgence or feeling gratified. It's that gratification with those experiences that is the corruption. Joy is not a corruption; tranquility is not a corruption; faith is not a corruption; clinging to them is the corruption. Indulging and clinging to them--that's the corruption."

Steve Armstrong explains the concept of "spiritual goodies" and how they can become a point of attachment. He clarifies that the experiences themselves are not problematic, but the corruption lies in the indulgence and clinging to these pleasant states, which hinders further progress.

"The next mature arising and passing away where the spiritual goodies are arising, but you're not indulging in them. That's great. You know, the path is just noticed is like the best practice you've ever could imagine. It's just it's so effortless and it's so clear and it's so continuous and it's so at times blissful and you're not indulging in it and you don't care if it comes or goes and it's just very a lot of equanimity. It's really great."

Steve Armstrong describes an advanced stage of practice where pleasant experiences ("spiritual goodies") arise but are met with non-indulgence and equanimity. He characterizes this state as effortless, clear, continuous, and blissful, highlighting the importance of not clinging to these positive states.

"And then there's another phase of this dark night. There's both the fear and then there's what we would call disillusionment where you start to see that all that has appeared and that we've been fascinated life is just really not very it doesn't really offer the goods. We get disillusioned with more experience. Nothing does it for you."

Steve Armstrong details the challenging "dark night" phase, which involves both fear and disillusionment. He explains that this stage involves recognizing that external experiences, even those previously found fascinating, ultimately do not provide lasting satisfaction or fulfillment.

"The unconditioned is another way of saying nirvana or in the pali word nibana. Unpack that for me, man. What is the unconditioned and how would one fall into it?"

Dan Harris prompts Steve Armstrong to explain the concept of the "unconditioned," equating it with nirvana. He expresses curiosity about its nature and how one might experience it, indicating a desire for a deeper understanding of this ultimate goal.