Customer Education, Community, and Niche Focus Drive Brand Trust - Episode Hero Image

Customer Education, Community, and Niche Focus Drive Brand Trust

How I Built This with Guy Raz · · Listen to Original Episode →
Original Title:

TL;DR

  • Focusing on customer education and building genuine relationships, rather than just selling, is crucial for establishing a trusted brand, especially in premium markets where emotional connection drives purchase decisions.
  • Niche down your product offering and target market to gain traction, avoiding premature diversification to ensure resources are concentrated on mastering a specific area.
  • Prioritize community building and fostering a sense of belonging among customers, as this connection often becomes a stronger pull than the core product or service itself.
  • Emphasize the "why" behind your product through education, enabling customers to understand its value and desire it, rather than feeling sold to.
  • Leverage partnerships with complementary brands and organizations to expand reach and build credibility, as these collaborations can drive significant promotional benefits.
  • Embrace the "test and learn" phase by meticulously documenting feedback and measuring results to iteratively refine your product and business strategy.
  • Recognize that true expertise is rare; as an entrepreneur, you possess the deepest understanding of your business and its emotional drivers.

Deep Dive

Jane Wurwand, co-founder of Dermalogica, joins Guy Raz on the How I Built This Advice Line to assist three early-stage founders. Wurwand, originally trained as a skin therapist, shared her philosophy on the importance of customer education for building a trusted brand. She recounted her journey from Scotland, inspired by her mother's advice to develop a skill for independence, to California in the early 80s where she and her husband Raymond established a skincare education business. They later founded Dermalogica, a global skincare brand, which they sold a majority stake in to Unilever in 2015.

The discussion then shifts to Wurwand's approach to launching Dermalogica with 27 products simultaneously, a strategy she defended as necessary for educating consumers about skincare regimens. She emphasized the importance of focus, stating that Dermalogica concentrated solely on skincare and avoided diversification into other beauty categories. Wurwand also reflected on how the beauty landscape has changed, noting that while the barrier to entry is lower now, breaking into the massive market remains challenging. She believes that even with the rise of social media, the core principles of building a solid relationship with customers through education and word-of-mouth remain paramount, contrasting this with the less substantial connections formed online.

The first caller, Camille from Virginia, founded Chunky Vegan, a company offering farm-to-table, nutrient-rich vegan baby food in glass jars. She explained that the business was born from her own experience as a parent seeking healthier options for her son. Camille's primary question was how to effectively scale her business while maintaining her high quality and sustainability standards, as she had been advised to cut back on packaging or ingredients, which would degrade product quality. Wurwand praised Chunky Vegan's branding and premium positioning, advising Camille to focus on education about the benefits of her ingredients and to target niche, high-end local grocery stores like Erewhon, rather than large supermarkets that could impose difficult terms. Guy Raz added that this is Camille's test-and-learn phase, encouraging her to document feedback and consider options like freezing for extended shelf life, and to lean into local marketing and community building. Wurwand suggested pitching educational workshops to pediatricians and parent groups, framing it as sharing knowledge rather than selling a brand.

Next, Molly from Portland, Maine, founded Baby Booty, a boutique fitness business for parents that allows them to bring their babies or toddlers along, focusing on the parent's physical, emotional, and mental well-being. Molly's question focused on how to shift the mindset of current and potential customers to prioritize self-care without guilt, in a culture that often places children first. Wurwand highlighted the critical role of community and connection in Baby Booty's appeal, drawing parallels to her own experience with Dermalogica students seeking community. She advised Molly to emphasize this community aspect and encourage user-generated content on social media. Raz supported this, suggesting that emphasizing self-care as essential for good parenting, made easy by Baby Booty, could be a powerful message. Molly revealed that Baby Booty is bootstrapped and not yet profitable, with a membership model at approximately $89 per month. She also explained her decision to open a second location in Boston, despite the financial strain, stemming from successful pop-up classes there. Wurwand cautioned against expanding too quickly, suggesting that managing one location effectively might be more prudent before scaling, but acknowledged Molly was already committed. Raz proposed that the Boston location could become a more 360-degree community hub, incorporating elements like premium baby food sales or inviting pediatricians for talks.

The final caller, Sarah from Connecticut, founded Parady Sport, a performance underwear brand for women athletes, designed with a "stay in place" promise and made sustainably. Sarah, a former Division I athlete, started the brand after finding her usual active underwear no longer met her needs and realizing a lack of better options for active women. She has developed two lines of underwear, one seamless and one with a natural fiber fabric, and is adding new styles. Sarah's question concerned whether to expand into other verticals like sports bras or shorts, or to continue focusing solely on perfecting her underwear niche. Wurwand advised Sarah to "own this underwear niche" and explore further opportunities within that category, such as specialized sports or maternity underwear, rather than diversifying too soon. Guy Raz, however, presented a counterargument, suggesting that sports bras are another common problem for female athletes and that Sarah, having solved the underwear issue, might be well-positioned to tackle this as well. Wurwand expressed concern about the complexity of bra sizing and minimum order quantities, while Raz pointed out that "Parady Sport" implies a broader vision beyond just underwear. Sarah shared that the brand name "Parady" pays homage to Marie Parady, the first woman to climb Mont Blanc, and that college athletes have been integral to testing and fitting their products.

Before concluding, Wurwand shared a piece of advice she wished she knew sooner: that there are no true experts on one's own business, and that while experienced individuals can assist, no one will love or run a brand with the same passion as the founder. She also reflected on her own early days with Dermalogica, recalling a contract manufacturer in Los Angeles who took a chance on their dream despite the high probability of failure.

Action Items

  • Create customer education program: Develop 3-5 workshops on ingredient sourcing and nutrient density to differentiate from convenience brands.
  • Audit distribution channels: Evaluate niche local health food stores and high-end markets (e.g., Erewhon) for suitability before targeting large supermarkets.
  • Implement feedback loop: Systematically collect and analyze customer feedback from surveys and direct interactions to refine product offerings and accessibility.
  • Design community engagement strategy: Host 2-3 events per quarter (e.g., CPH workshops, parent groups) to foster brand loyalty and word-of-mouth referrals.
  • Develop targeted messaging: Craft concise, compelling narratives for social media and marketing materials emphasizing premium quality and unique value proposition.

Related Episodes

Key Quotes

"Jane Wurwand, co-founder of the global skincare brand Dermalogica, joins Guy on the Advice Line, where they answer questions from three early stage founders. Plus, Jane shares her philosophy on the importance of customer education for building a trusted brand."

This quote introduces the episode's premise, highlighting Jane Wurwand's role as an expert advisor and her emphasis on customer education as a foundational element for brand trust. It sets the stage for the advice she will provide to entrepreneurs.

"Jane Wurwand: ...focus is the number one word I would use focus focus focus we didn't introduce makeup we didn't introduce hair products we didn't introduce nail products everyone told us diversify spread your wings no no no skincare skincare skincare and I think nitching is really important when you're a startup directing your energy and time and attention at one target market you can expand once you secure that but start off in something that you feel strongly you've got a unique position in."

Jane Wurwand argues that intense focus on a core product category is crucial for startups. She explains that despite external pressure to diversify, maintaining a singular focus on skincare allowed Dermalogica to establish a strong position and build its brand effectively.

"Jane Wurwand: ...the fundamentals remain the same yeah yeah the plumbing's different but it's exactly the same stuff coming through it."

Jane Wurwand suggests that while the tools and methods for business may change, the core principles of building a successful brand remain constant. She uses the analogy of "plumbing" to illustrate that the underlying strategies and customer needs are enduring, even if the delivery mechanisms evolve.

"Jane Wurwand: ...don't underestimate this community aspect make every excuse you can to have them come in to the studio whether it's a workshop whether it's a baby class whether it's somebody giving a presentation on something get it on social media... your moms can keep your moms can kind of flesh that out themselves you know have them post do little competitions when they post anything you can think about any idea that builds community build it in your business."

Jane Wurwand emphasizes the critical importance of community building for businesses like Molly's fitness studio. She advises Molly to actively create opportunities for connection and encourage user-generated content on social media, recognizing that community is a powerful draw for customers.

"Jane Wurwand: ...I would not expand you've got to own this underwear niche you've got to be when I think underwear I got to think parady I think that there's all kinds of opportunities to expand within the underwear I don't know I do I love pilates pilates underwear we need something when we're doing standing leg series trust me you've got a pregnant woman in one of your shots but pregnancy underwear there's specific sports I imagine like I don't know hurdles pickleball which is huge men's I think could be the next big step I wouldn't charge into swimwear and shorts and all the rest of it until you've got a great product going here and you've got great attention from press I wouldn't spread yourself too thin."

Jane Wurwand advises Sarah, the founder of Parady Sport, to maintain a narrow focus on perfecting her underwear line before expanding into other product categories. She believes that owning the underwear niche and gaining significant brand recognition within that space is more strategic than diversifying too early into areas like sports bras or shorts.

"Jane Wurwand: ...the one thing that does come to mind is that I wish I'd known sooner that there are no real experts out there I mean there are people that have more experience and they may have had more success and they may have made more money but it doesn't mean that they're experts about your business you know your business the best you know what's driving it for you emotionally you know your customers when you're an entrepreneur and..."

Jane Wurwand shares a key piece of wisdom gained from her experience, stating that true experts for one's specific business are rare. She explains that while experienced individuals exist, the entrepreneur themselves possesses the deepest understanding of their own business, its motivations, and its customers.

Resources

External Resources

Books

  • "Dermalogica’s founding story" by Jane Wurwand - Mentioned as a previous episode available via link for listeners to reference.

Articles & Papers

  • "Privacy Policy" (art19.com) - Referenced for privacy information.
  • "California Privacy Notice" (art19.com) - Referenced for privacy information.

People

  • Jane Wurwand - Co-founder of Dermalogica, guest on the Advice Line episode.
  • Guy Raz - Host of "How I Built This" podcast.
  • Camille Hardy - Founder of Chunky Vegan, caller seeking business advice.
  • Molly Brewbaker - Founder of Baby Booty, caller seeking business advice.
  • Sarah Wyman - Founder of Parady Sport, caller seeking business advice.
  • Raymond - Husband of Jane Wurwand, co-founder of Dermalogica.
  • Katherine Sypher - Producer of the episode.
  • John Isabella - Editor of the episode.
  • Neal Rauch - Audio engineer for the episode.
  • Marie Purdy - First woman to climb Mont Blanc, namesake for Parady Sport.

Organizations & Institutions

  • Dermalogica - Global skincare brand founded by Jane Wurwand.
  • Chunky Vegan - Baby food company founded by Camille Hardy.
  • Baby Booty - Boutique fitness for parents founded by Molly Brewbaker.
  • Parady Sport - Performance underwear company founded by Sarah Wyman.
  • Unilever - Company that acquired a majority stake in Dermalogica.
  • Wondery - Podcast network producing "How I Built This."
  • Audible - Audiobook and podcast platform.
  • Airbnb - Online marketplace for lodging and experiences.
  • Shopify - E-commerce platform.
  • American Express - Financial services company.
  • Claude AI - AI assistant for creative thinking.
  • Vanta - Company providing compliance and security automation.
  • ZipRecruiter - Online employment marketplace.

Websites & Online Resources

  • audible.com/built - URL for a free 30-day Audible trial.
  • airbnb.com/host - URL for information on hosting on Airbnb.
  • shopify.com/built - URL for a Shopify $1 per month trial.
  • guyraz.com - Website for Guy Raz's newsletter.
  • claude.ai - Website for Claude AI.
  • vanta.com/built - URL for a $1,000 discount on Vanta.
  • ziprecruiter.com/built - URL for a free ZipRecruiter trial.
  • wondery.com/survey - URL for a listener survey.

Other Resources

  • Advice Line - Segment of the "How I Built This" podcast for founder advice.
  • Customer Education - Philosophy emphasized by Jane Wurwand for brand building.
  • Niche Marketing - Strategy discussed for startups.
  • Community Building - Key aspect of business success highlighted for Baby Booty.
  • Self-Care - Concept discussed in relation to new parents and Baby Booty.
  • BPA and PFA-free - Certification for Parady Sport products.
  • Sustainable Manufacturing - Practice employed by Parady Sport.
  • B Corp Certification - Mentioned in relation to Parady Sport.
  • High Pressure Processing (HPP) - Potential method for preserving nutrients in baby food.
  • Circular Knitting Machines - Used in the production of Parady Sport underwear.
  • Beech Tree Pulp - Sustainable material used in Parady Sport's natural fiber line.
  • Pilates Underwear - Specific niche suggested for Parady Sport expansion.
  • Pregnancy Underwear - Specific niche suggested for Parady Sport expansion.
  • Men's Underwear - Potential expansion for Parady Sport.
  • Sports Bras - Product category discussed for potential expansion by Parady Sport.
  • Sports Shorts - Product category discussed for potential expansion by Parady Sport.
  • Boy Short and Hipster Styles - New styles in development for Parady Sport.
  • CPR Workshops - Offered by Baby Booty.
  • Mom's Night Out - Event offered by Baby Booty.
  • Neonatal Classes - Potential venue for education and outreach.
  • Pediatricians - Professionals who could be pitched educational programs.
  • Mommy and Baby Groups - Target audience for education and outreach.
  • Farmer's Markets - Distribution channel for Chunky Vegan.
  • Pop-up Shops - Distribution channel for Chunky Vegan.
  • Daycares - Distribution channel for Chunky Vegan.
  • Local Grocery Stores (Health Food Stores) - Potential distribution channel for Chunky Vegan.
  • Erewhon - High-end grocery market mentioned as a target for Chunky Vegan.
  • Kroger and Whole Foods - Large supermarket chains mentioned as not suitable for Chunky Vegan at this stage.
  • Alternative Weeklies - Local publications suggested for marketing Chunky Vegan.
  • Parent Groups - Target audience for Chunky Vegan.
  • Washington D.C. Metro Area - Geographic market for Chunky Vegan.
  • Social Media (Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest, LinkedIn) - Platforms used by businesses for marketing.
  • Farmer's Dog - Gourmet dog food brand used as a branding example for Chunky Vegan.
  • Baby Bjorn - Brand of baby carrier mentioned in relation to Baby Booty classes.
  • Goldfish Crackers and Apple Juice - Items mentioned in the context of a chaotic Baby Booty class.
  • On-Demand Classes - Offered by Baby Booty.
  • Live Stream Classes - Offered by Baby Booty.
  • Membership Model - Business structure for Baby Booty.
  • Pop-up Classes - Offered by Baby Booty in Boston.
  • Stroller Companies - Potential partners for Baby Booty.
  • Apparel - Potential product line for Baby Booty.
  • Pediatricians - Potential partners for Baby Booty.
  • Neonatal Specialists - Potential partners for Baby Booty.
  • Maternity Care Specialists - Potential partners for Baby Booty.
  • Medical Centers - Mentioned in relation to Boston's healthcare infrastructure.
  • University Athletics Programs (Dartmouth College) - Source of interns and fit testers for Parady Sport.
  • GB Athlete - Type of athlete mentioned in relation to ultra-marathons.
  • Ironman Competitions - Type of endurance race.
  • Atlantic Crossing - Feat mentioned in relation to ultra-athletes.
  • Stanford Soccer Team - Example of a college athletic team.
  • Field Hockey and Lacrosse - Sports played by Sarah Wyman in college.
  • Skiing, Running, Hiking - Activities Sarah Wyman engages in.
  • Pickleball - Sport mentioned as a potential niche for Parady Sport.
  • Swimwear - Product category mentioned as a potential expansion for Parady Sport.
  • Slips and Petticoats - Undergarment categories mentioned in discussion.
  • Alo and Lululemon - Athletic apparel brands mentioned as potential competitors.
  • Mont Blanc - Tallest peak in the Alps, climbed by Marie Purdy.
  • Wool Skirt and Leather Shoes - Attire worn by Marie Purdy during her climb.
  • D1 Athletes - Division 1 athletes.
  • Bison - Animals featured in a promotional image for Parady Sport.
  • Spanks - Brand mentioned as an example of focusing on one product.
  • AI - Artificial intelligence, mentioned in relation to startups and Claude AI.
  • SOC 2 - Security compliance standard.
  • Die Hard - Movie mentioned as an example of teamwork in chaos.
  • Actors, Editors, Props People, Sound Crew - Roles in film production.
  • Quality Candidate - Outcome of using ZipRecruiter.

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