Stoicism's Enduring Appeal as a Governor for High-Achievers - Episode Hero Image

Stoicism's Enduring Appeal as a Governor for High-Achievers

The Daily Stoic · · Listen to Original Episode →
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TL;DR

  • Stoicism's enduring appeal stems from its role as a "governor" for high-achievers, providing a framework for resilience and self-control that has been passed down through centuries among influential figures.
  • The philosophy's persistence is amplified by its absorption into other major thought systems like Christianity and modern psychology, demonstrating its foundational influence on Western thought.
  • Stoicism resurges during turbulent times because it offers practical tools for self-mastery, enabling individuals to control their responses when external circumstances feel chaotic.
  • Modern psychology, particularly CBT and narrative therapy, directly mirrors Stoic principles of cognitive reappraisal and examining one's thoughts and interpretations.
  • Stoicism's core message emphasizes focusing on internal responses rather than external events, presenting adversity as an opportunity to practice virtue like courage, justice, and wisdom.
  • While Stoicism provides a robust framework for resilience, it may lack depth in addressing severe mental illness or complex emotional states, requiring integration with modern therapeutic approaches.
  • The popularization of Stoicism, while beneficial for wider adoption, risks oversimplification or misinterpretation, leading to a superficial understanding focused on toughness rather than its ethical core.

Deep Dive

Stoicism endures across generations not as a niche academic pursuit but as a resilient framework for navigating adversity, consistently resurging during times of crisis. Its persistence lies in its practical, person-to-person transmission and its adaptable principles that resonate with individuals seeking self-mastery and meaning, influencing everything from foundational Western thought to modern therapeutic practices.

The enduring appeal of Stoicism stems from its ability to serve as a governor for those in positions of power or potential, offering a critical inner compass. This philosophy has historically been passed down as a "secret weapon" among elites, from Enlightenment thinkers and US Founding Fathers to modern world leaders and cultural influencers. Its resurgence during turbulent periods--such as the Enlightenment, the establishment of the United States, and our current era of perceived global instability--highlights its core utility: helping individuals regain control over themselves when external circumstances feel chaotic. Stoicism's integration into other belief systems, notably Christianity, and its influence on figures like Thomas Aquinas and its presence in early Christian texts, demonstrates its deep roots and broad adaptability. This historical assimilation, coupled with its rediscovery during the Renaissance and its popularization through the printing press, shows how Stoic ideas have continuously permeated Western thought, offering timeless wisdom on managing internal states.

Modern psychology, particularly Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and narrative therapy, owes a significant debt to Stoic principles, often without explicit acknowledgment. The Stoic framework of desire, action, and assent mirrors CBT's focus on thoughts, behaviors, and emotions, providing a structured approach to managing internal experiences. Practices like journaling and cognitive reappraisal, central to therapeutic interventions, echo Seneca's advice on reflecting on one's day and reassessing negative thoughts. While Stoicism offers profound insights into resilience and virtue, its limitations appear in addressing severe mental illness or trauma, where its emphasis on individual agency might overlook complex biological or experiential factors. Despite these gaps, Stoicism's core tenets--particularly the distinction between what is within our control (our responses) and what is not (external events)--provide a robust foundation for psychological well-being, offering a practical method for confronting challenges by focusing on virtuous action and rational interpretation.

The enduring power of Stoicism lies in its actionable wisdom, distilled into core principles that remain relevant across millennia. The most impactful takeaway for newcomers is the fundamental Stoic insight: one cannot control external events, but one can always control their response to them. This principle transforms adversity into an opportunity for practicing virtue--courage, self-command, justice, and wisdom--with greater challenges offering greater potential for personal growth. While interpretations may vary, and some modern popularizations risk oversimplification or misapplication, the core Stoic message emphasizes thoughtful, decent engagement with the world, making it a timeless philosophy for navigating life's inevitable difficulties.

Action Items

  • Implement Stoic virtue framework: Apply courage, justice, wisdom, and self-command to 3-5 challenging personal or professional situations weekly.
  • Draft personal Stoic reappraisal journal: Document negative thought patterns and reframe them using Stoic principles for 10-15 recurring issues.
  • Audit personal responses to adversity: Analyze 3-5 recent setbacks to identify opportunities for practicing Stoic virtues, not just immediate fixes.
  • Track Stoic philosophy integration: Measure personal application of Stoic concepts in daily decision-making over a 2-week period.

Related Episodes

Key Quotes

"Every crisis creates the same instinct in people: go back to the wisdom that has outlasted everything else. In today’s episode, Ryan and Mark Manson dive into why Stoicism keeps coming back during moments of crisis, why world leaders and big thinkers have leaned on it for centuries, and what its modern resurgence gets right and wrong."

Ryan Holiday and Mark Manson discuss the recurring appeal of Stoicism during times of crisis. Holiday and Manson explore the reasons behind Stoicism's enduring influence on leaders and thinkers throughout history and examine its contemporary popularity.

"It's like this kind of like open secret like okay but have you read this and that like the stoics are not the thing that anyone is specializing in it's not the sexy or the exciting or the groundbreaking field and a lot of it is kind of intuitively obvious but there's something inspiring and beautiful and like affirmative about it and it's just always been there as this like person to person passing this along kind of a thing."

Ryan Holiday suggests that Stoicism has persisted as a "secret weapon" or "open secret" among influential figures. Holiday explains that its appeal lies not in being a novel or groundbreaking field, but in its inherently inspiring and affirmative qualities, passed down through personal recommendation.

"You know seneca quotes a lot from epicurus because he read widely so i don't think it's a problem to update it i would love to know yeah this line between acceptance and agency and where is it because like it's true there's some things that are up to us and some things that are not and then there's a lot in the middle."

Ryan Holiday discusses the potential for updating Stoic philosophy, noting that Seneca himself drew from other thinkers like Epicurus. Holiday expresses a desire to explore the nuanced balance between acceptance and agency, acknowledging that many situations fall into a gray area between what is within our control and what is not.

"The more trying the situation, the more impressive the virtue. So like when I wrote The Obstacle Is the Way, I think a lot of people--and I think I that's where I was when I was 24, 25--is like, 'Hey, how does this help you professionally?' Like, how and and it's true, there's a chance to to do that. But what they're really saying is that like, this is the chance for you as a person to get better or worse. What is it going to be?"

Ryan Holiday explains that Stoicism views challenging situations as opportunities to practice virtue. Holiday clarifies that while Stoicism can offer professional benefits, its core message is about personal growth, emphasizing that adversity reveals whether one chooses to improve or decline as an individual.

"The stoics were arguing about what stoicism was right like you had Seneca and Thrasy and they're different definitions of it so I think that's fine too but yeah like if you ask AI what stoicism is it's like this shredded Greek statue you know like decapitating his enemy with a sword or something and feeling nothing about it."

Ryan Holiday acknowledges that even ancient Stoics debated the precise definition of their philosophy. Holiday contrasts this historical debate with modern, often oversimplified, AI-generated perceptions of Stoicism, which he finds to be a misrepresentation of its true nature.

Resources

External Resources

Books

  • "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fk"** by Mark Manson - Mentioned as a book to read.
  • "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fk Journal"** by Mark Manson - Mentioned as a book to read.
  • "Everything Is Fed: A Book About Hope"* by Mark Manson - Mentioned as a book to read.
  • "Meditations" by Marcus Aurelius - Mentioned as a foundational text for Stoicism and a recommended read.
  • "Letters from a Stoic" by Seneca - Mentioned as a foundational text for Stoicism and a recommended read.
  • "Discourses and Selected Writings" by Epictetus - Mentioned as a foundational text for Stoicism and a recommended read.

Articles & Papers

  • "A Comprehensive Guide to Stoicism" (Apple Podcasts) - Mentioned as the full episode of Ryan Holiday's appearance on Mark Manson's podcast.
  • "Solved" (Mark Manson's Podcast) - Mentioned as a podcast where Ryan Holiday appeared for a deep dive into Stoicism.

People

  • Mark Manson - Co-host of the podcast episode, author of several books, and host of the "Solved" podcast.
  • Ryan Holiday - Co-host of the podcast episode, author, and founder of The Daily Stoic.
  • Nietzsche - Mentioned as an Enlightenment philosopher who wrote fondly of the Stoics.
  • Thomas Aquinas - Mentioned for his engagement with Stoic ideas.
  • Paul - Mentioned for studying Stoicism in Tarsus and engaging with philosophers in Athens.
  • Seneca's brother - Mentioned as being in the Bible and a judge who let Paul go.
  • Saint Peter - Mentioned in relation to fake letters with Seneca.
  • Shakespeare - Mentioned for including Stoic ideas in his works, specifically Hamlet.
  • Cato - Mentioned for the play "Cato" which was popular during the American Revolution.
  • George Washington - Mentioned as a Stoic who was inspired by the play "Cato."
  • Aaron Beck - Mentioned as a psychologist influenced by Stoicism, a founder of CBT.
  • Albert Ellis - Mentioned as a founder of REBT, influenced by Stoicism.
  • Socrates - Mentioned as an example of a philosopher engaged in ongoing dialogue.
  • Cincinnatus - Mentioned as a classical example of civic virtue.
  • Robert Greene - Mentioned as a mentor to Ryan Holiday, known for illustrating ancient ideas with stories.
  • Andrew Tate - Mentioned as an example of a misinterpretation of Stoicism.
  • Jesus - Mentioned in relation to non-violent resistance.
  • Gandhi - Mentioned in relation to non-violent political change.

Organizations & Institutions

  • The Daily Stoic - Podcast and platform for Stoic wisdom.
  • The Painted Porch - Retailer where Mark Manson's books are available.
  • Apple Podcasts - Platform where "A Comprehensive Guide to Stoicism" episode is available.
  • Spotify - Platform where "A Comprehensive Guide to Stoicism" episode is available.
  • YouTube - Platform where "A Comprehensive Guide to Stoicism" episode is available, and where Mark Manson has a channel.
  • The Daily Stoic Premium - Ad-free subscription service for The Daily Stoic podcast.
  • The Daily Stoic YouTube channel - Platform for video episodes of The Daily Stoic.
  • The Daily Stoic Podcast on Instagram - Social media account for The Daily Stoic podcast.
  • The Daily Stoic email - Newsletter for daily Stoic wisdom.
  • The Daily Stoic Store - Retailer for Stoic-inspired merchandise.
  • Instagram - Social media platform used by The Daily Stoic.
  • Twitter - Social media platform used by The Daily Stoic.
  • TikTok - Social media platform used by The Daily Stoic.
  • Facebook - Social media platform used by The Daily Stoic.
  • art19.com - Website hosting privacy policy and California privacy notice.
  • NFL (National Football League) - Mentioned in relation to data analysis.
  • Pro Football Focus (PFF) - Mentioned as a data source for player grading.
  • Givewell - Organization providing research on global health and poverty alleviation, and directing donations.
  • HelloFresh - Meal kit service mentioned as a sponsor.
  • Toyota Trucks - Sponsor of the podcast, mentioned for their durability and off-road capabilities.
  • Toyota Tacoma - Specific model of Toyota truck mentioned.
  • Toyota Forerunner - Specific model of Toyota truck mentioned.

Websites & Online Resources

  • https://markmanson.net/ - Website for Mark Manson's work.
  • https://dailystoic.supercast.com/ - Website for The Daily Stoic Premium subscription.
  • https://www.youtube.com/@DailyStoic/videos - YouTube channel for The Daily Stoic.
  • https://www.instagram.com/dailystoicpodcast/ - Instagram account for The Daily Stoic podcast.
  • https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail - Website to sign up for The Daily Stoic email.
  • https://store.dailystoic.com/ - Website for The Daily Stoic Store.
  • https://www.instagram.com/dailystoic/ - Instagram account for The Daily Stoic.
  • https://twitter.com/dailystoic - Twitter account for The Daily Stoic.
  • https://www.tiktok.com/@daily_stoic?lang=en - TikTok account for The Daily Stoic.
  • https://www.facebook.com/dailystoic - Facebook account for The Daily Stoic.
  • https://art19.com/privacy - Website for privacy policy.
  • https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info - Website for California privacy notice.
  • givewell.org - Website for Givewell, mentioned for donations.
  • hellofresh.com/stoic10fm - Website for HelloFresh with a special offer.
  • toyota.com/trucks - Website for Toyota Trucks.

Other Resources

  • Stoicism - The central philosophy discussed in the episode.
  • The Four Virtues - Stoic virtues discussed in relation to Stoicism.
  • Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) - Psychological approach discussed in relation to Stoicism.
  • Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapy (REBT) - Psychological approach discussed in relation to Stoicism.
  • Narrative Therapy - Therapeutic approach discussed in relation to Stoicism.
  • 12-step groups - Mentioned as similar to the Stoic process.
  • Serenity Prayer - Mentioned as a Stoic-influenced text.
  • Post-Traumatic Growth Theory - Theory discussed in relation to Stoicism.
  • Cognitive Reappraisal - Psychological technique discussed in relation to Stoicism.
  • Non-violent resistance - Concept discussed in relation to Stoicism and Jesus.
  • "Obstacles the Way" - Ryan Holiday's book about dealing with problems.
  • "The Enemy" - Ryan Holiday's book about dealing with ego.
  • "Stillness" - Ryan Holiday's book about finding peace.
  • Broicism - A term used to describe a potentially superficial or masculine-focused interpretation of Stoicism.

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