The Unchecked Drive for More: Individual Ruin Versus Societal Progress - Episode Hero Image

The Unchecked Drive for More: Individual Ruin Versus Societal Progress

The Daily Stoic · · Listen to Original Episode →
Original Title:

TL;DR

  • The relentless pursuit of "more" by successful individuals, driven by comparison and insecurity, often leads to a perpetual state of dissatisfaction, as external achievements fail to fill an internal void.
  • The perceived transferability of expertise across domains, from finance to writing or politics, frequently results in overconfidence and subsequent failure, as specialized skills rarely translate directly.
  • The core of Stoicism lies not in controlling external events, but in mastering one's internal response to them, emphasizing courage, justice, temperance, and wisdom as guiding virtues.
  • Elite performers across various fields, from athletes to CEOs, often find that success hinges on mental resilience--the ability to manage stress, bounce back from setbacks, and maintain inner peace amidst chaos.
  • The human drive for continuous improvement and exploration, while propelling societal progress and innovation, can lead to personal ruin if not balanced with a sense of "enough" and contentment.
  • The "halo effect" of immense wealth can distort reality, leading individuals to believe their opinions and decisions are inherently brilliant, rather than products of their financial status.
  • The pursuit of external validation, such as critical reviews or bestseller lists, can be a source of significant anxiety, whereas finding satisfaction in the process and controllable aspects of creation offers greater fulfillment.

Deep Dive

The persistent human drive for "more," even among the most successful, creates a fundamental tension between individual ruin and societal progress. While this ceaseless desire propels innovation and economic growth, it also risks consuming individuals if left unchecked, highlighting a core Stoic challenge: finding contentment and defining "enough."

This inherent human trait, observed by Andrew Ross Sorkin across titans of industry and historical figures alike, manifests as a constant shifting of goalposts. Success rarely provides lasting satisfaction because the benchmarks for achievement continuously move. This is evident in the speculative frenzy of historical market crashes, such as the 1929 crisis, where even figures like Winston Churchill and Mark Twain, despite their existing accomplishments, were drawn into a relentless pursuit of further financial gains, often with devastating personal consequences. The "halo effect" of wealth and success can distort an individual's perception of reality, leading them to believe their expertise is universally transferable and that they possess an invincible Midas touch, a delusion that often ends in ruin.

The implications of this unchecked desire are profound. For individuals, it can lead to a life of constant striving without ever reaching a state of genuine contentment, a phenomenon exemplified by the anecdote of Joseph Heller and Kurt Vonnegut, where Heller, despite writing a literary masterpiece, still felt he didn't have "enough" compared to a billionaire. This perpetual dissatisfaction can erode well-being and lead to poor decision-making, as seen with figures like Ulysses S. Grant, who, despite his military genius, foundered in the financial markets due to a lack of domain expertise and an inflated sense of his own capabilities.

Conversely, this same drive, when channeled productively, fuels societal advancement. The continuous pursuit of innovation, new markets, and economic expansion, while potentially detrimental to the individual who never finds "enough," is arguably the engine that drives human progress and creates a more dynamic society. The challenge lies in balancing this ambitious drive with the Stoic virtue of temperance, finding a personal equilibrium that allows for achievement without succumbing to destructive obsession. The difficulty in discerning between legitimate ambition and delusional overreach, particularly for those shielded by immense success and surrounded by adulation, underscores the enduring relevance of Stoic principles in navigating the complexities of wealth, achievement, and the human condition.

Action Items

  • Track personal "enough" threshold: Define specific financial or achievement milestones that signify sufficiency to prevent endless pursuit of more.
  • Audit personal "transferable skills" assumptions: Evaluate if expertise in one domain is truly applicable to another before making significant shifts.
  • Measure "progress vs. output" in creative work: Focus on actual forward movement and discovery, not just tangible page counts or task completion.
  • Design a "reality check" system: Implement regular feedback mechanisms to counter the "reality distortion field" that success can create.
  • Evaluate "stretch goal" vs. "delusion" line: Assess ambitious new endeavors based on potential for growth versus statistical probability of failure.

Related Episodes

Key Quotes

"The cardinal virtues are courage discipline justice wisdom so you know courage is important but in pursuit of what uh wisdom is important but without the discipline the strength to bring it into reality what what can you do so these sort of interlocking virtues are what try to shape us as as aspiring uh stoics."

Ryan Holiday explains that the four cardinal virtues of Stoicism--courage, justice, wisdom, and discipline--are interconnected. He highlights that courage and wisdom are less effective without the discipline to enact them, suggesting these virtues work together to shape an individual.

"I tell myself we're running different races i know that i'm not going to be running a race that lands me on a private plane flying to wherever with a bajillion homes it's just not for better or worse it's not in the cards i feel like i'm running my own race my my own race is is working out frankly better than i ever thought it was supposed to son i'm pretty pleased with it."

Andrew Ross Sorkin describes his personal philosophy for maintaining perspective amidst wealth and success. He emphasizes the importance of recognizing that everyone is on a different path and focusing on one's own journey rather than comparing it to others. Sorkin finds contentment in his own progress, which he feels has exceeded his expectations.

"The market's realist line is we all love ourselves more than other people but for some reason we care about their opinions more than our own it's like they're paying you to do it you're the what and then you're like but tell me if i did it or not and then it's like it can't work that way."

Ryan Holiday reflects on the human tendency to prioritize external validation over self-assessment, particularly in creative fields. He questions the logic of seeking payment for one's work while simultaneously being overly concerned with the opinions of others regarding its quality. Holiday suggests this creates a paradoxical and unsustainable approach to one's craft.

"The fundamental peril of of that level of success and inequality is that it can't help but corrode and change your perception of reality."

Andrew Ross Sorkin discusses the potential negative impact of extreme success and wealth on an individual's perception of reality. He posits that a high level of success can distort one's understanding of the world, making it difficult to maintain an accurate view of circumstances. Sorkin implies this distortion is an inherent risk associated with significant achievement and inequality.

"It's better to harness that force to innovate and create and make a forward moving society than to try to you know like throw those people in gulags and make them not want to succeed anymore right that doesn't mean it's good for the individual who never has enough right so yeah there are these two it's these two contradictory ideas that you have to hold in your head at the same time."

Ryan Holiday presents a nuanced view on human ambition and its societal implications. He argues that channeling the drive for more into innovation and societal progress is beneficial, contrasting it with punitive measures against those with such desires. Holiday acknowledges the inherent conflict between this societal benefit and the potential individual ruin caused by an insatiable need for more.

Resources

External Resources

Books

  • "Too Big to Fail" by Andrew Ross Sorkin - Mentioned as a bestselling book he wrote, with an HBO movie adaptation.
  • "1929: Inside the Greatest Crash in Wall Street History--and How It Shattered a Nation" by Andrew Ross Sorkin - Mentioned as his new book, which was discussed as a fantastic read.
  • "Abs Diet" - Mentioned in relation to past writing habits.
  • "No Champagne for Churchill" by Andrew Ross Sorkin - Mentioned as a favorite book, cited in endnotes.
  • "Catch-22" by Joseph Heller - Mentioned as one of the greatest books of all time.

Articles & Papers

  • "Our Second Billionaire" (1929 article) - Mentioned as a headline from 1929.

People

  • Andrew Ross Sorkin - Financial columnist for The New York Times, co-anchor of CNBC's Squawk Box, founder and editor of DealBook.
  • Joseph Heller - Author of "Catch-22."
  • Kurt Vonnegut - Mentioned in an anecdote with Joseph Heller.
  • Mark Twain - Discussed as an example of someone who became wealthy and then lost fortunes as an investor.
  • Ulysses S. Grant - Mentioned as a tragic example of someone who had no business in the market and was "eaten alive by it."
  • Warren Buffett - Famously advises family to buy an index fund.
  • Winston Churchill - Mentioned as a historical figure who got sucked into the market and lost money.
  • John Raskob - Described as the "Elon Musk of it all" in his time, responsible for ideas like the five-day work week.
  • Elon Musk - Discussed in the context of taking risks and the "reality distortion field."
  • Peter Thiel - Quoted as saying a book about Elon Musk would be titled "The Man Who Knows Nothing About Risk."
  • Steve Jobs - Credited with the term "reality distortion field."
  • Bill Ackman - Mentioned in relation to reporting on Jeff Bezos's wedding expenses.
  • Jeff Bezos - Mentioned in relation to reporting on wedding expenses.
  • Ray Dalio - Described as an algorithm hedge fund guy who wants to be a thought leader and writer.
  • Henry Ford - Mentioned as the second billionaire in the US.
  • John D. Rockefeller - Mentioned as the first billionaire in the US.

Organizations & Institutions

  • The New York Times - Publication for which Andrew Ross Sorkin is a financial columnist.
  • CNBC - Network where Andrew Ross Sorkin co-anchors Squawk Box.
  • DealBook - Financial news service founded and edited by Andrew Ross Sorkin.
  • HBO Films - Produced the movie adaptation of "Too Big to Fail."
  • Showtime - Network for the series "Billions," co-created by Andrew Ross Sorkin.
  • The Painted Porch - Location where signed copies of "1929" were available.
  • National Football League (NFL) - Mentioned in relation to sports analytics.
  • Pro Football Focus (PFF) - Data source for player grading.
  • General Motors - Company John Raskob ran.
  • Democratic National Committee (DNC) - John Raskob was head of this.
  • Empire State Building - John Raskob was involved in its construction.
  • Wall Street Journal - Publication that used to list book sales.
  • The Times - Publication that has reviewed books.
  • Amazon - Platform where random people leave reviews.
  • Vanderbilt - Recipient of a famous letter from Mark Twain.
  • EF Hutton - Brokerage firm mentioned in relation to Winston Churchill's investments.
  • Toyota Trucks - Sponsor mentioned for their vehicles' off-road capabilities and adventure potential.
  • Toyota Tacoma - Specific model of Toyota truck mentioned.
  • Toyota Forerunner - Specific model of Toyota truck mentioned.
  • Whole Foods Market - Mentioned for groceries and prepared foods.
  • Givewell - Organization providing research on global health and poverty alleviation.
  • The Daily Stoic Premium - Ad-free version of the podcast with bonus content.
  • The Daily Stoic Store - Offers Stoic-inspired books, medallions, and prints.
  • Supercast - Platform for Daily Stoic Premium.
  • Art19 - Platform mentioned for privacy policy.

Websites & Online Resources

  • nytimes.com/section/business/dealbook - URL for DealBook.
  • thepaintedporch.com - Website for The Painted Porch.
  • instagram.com/sorkinsays - Andrew Ross Sorkin's Instagram.
  • x.com/andrewrsorkin - Andrew Ross Sorkin's X (formerly Twitter) account.
  • dailystoic.supercast.com - Link for The Daily Stoic Premium.
  • youtube.com/@DailyStoic/videos - Link to The Daily Stoic YouTube channel.
  • instagram.com/dailystoicpodcast - Instagram for The Daily Stoic Podcast.
  • dailystoic.com/dailyemail - Link to sign up for the FREE Daily Stoic email.
  • store.dailystoic.com - Link to The Daily Stoic Store.
  • instagram.com/dailystoic - Daily Stoic Instagram.
  • twitter.com/dailystoic - Daily Stoic Twitter.
  • youtube.com/@DailyStoic - Daily Stoic YouTube channel.
  • tiktok.com/@daily_stoic - Daily Stoic TikTok.
  • facebook.com/dailystoic - Daily Stoic Facebook.
  • art19.com/privacy - Link to Privacy Policy.
  • art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info - Link to California Privacy Notice.
  • givewell.org - Website for Givewell.
  • toyota.com/trucks - Website for Toyota Trucks.
  • eightsleep.com/dailystoic - Website for Eight Sleep.

Podcasts & Audio

  • The Daily Stoic - Podcast featuring meditations inspired by ancient Stoics and interviews.
  • Squawk Box - CNBC show where Andrew Ross Sorkin is a co-anchor.

Other Resources

  • Stoicism - Philosophy discussed, focusing on courage, justice, temperance, and wisdom.
  • Stoic virtues (courage, discipline, justice, wisdom) - Cardinal virtues of Stoicism.
  • Hamilton (musical) - Mentioned in relation to Mark Twain's son's interest.
  • Catch-22 - Mentioned as one of the greatest books of all time.
  • The Fisherman and the King story - An anecdote about the pursuit of wealth.
  • The Emperor's New Clothes - An analogy for believing false praise.
  • Midas Touch - A cautionary tale about excessive wealth.
  • The Daily Stoic Premium - Ad-free listening, early access, and bonus content.
  • Index fund investing - Recommended by Warren Buffett for family members.
  • The five-day work week - Idea attributed to John Raskob.
  • The Great Crash of 1929 - Historical event discussed.
  • Stoic wisdom - Delivered daily via email.
  • Stoic inspired books, medallions, and prints - Available at The Daily Stoic Store.
  • Meal kit delivery - Mentioned in relation to HelloFresh.
  • Digital picture frames - Mentioned in relation to Aura frames.
  • Strength training system - Mentioned in relation to Tonle.
  • Sleep technology - Mentioned in relation to Eight Sleep.
  • Trucks - Mentioned in relation to Toyota trucks.
  • The concept of "enough" - Discussed in relation to wealth and satisfaction.
  • The halo effect - Concept related to how wealth can influence perception.
  • Reality distortion field - Term associated with Steve Jobs and its application to figures like Elon Musk.
  • Socialism - Briefly discussed in relation to economic systems.
  • Capitalism - Briefly discussed in relation to economic systems.
  • The concept of "more" - Discussed as a driving force in human behavior.

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