Awakening: Ongoing Revelation of Reality's Multiple Dimensions

Key Quotes

"And so these two inputs together have brought us to this moment where we'll be having this dialogue between Hameed and Henry. Welcome to you both. Welcome. Thank you so much Tami. It's fantastic to be with you. And you too, Hameed. A great honor. Yeah, good to be here with both of you. You're meeting each other for the first time."

Tami Simon, the podcast host, introduces the guests and the premise of the conversation. She highlights how the dialogue between A.H. Almaas (Hameed Ali) and Henry Shukman was inspired by their previous work, setting the stage for an exploration of awakening. This quote establishes the context for the discussion between two "visionary teachers."

"And one of the things I've noticed is that people often use these terms interchangeably at Sounds True, we often use them interchangeably, but perhaps they're not simply interchangeable, and perhaps each of you relates to those two words differently. And I think it would be good, just so we actually know what we're talking about with some level of clarity, if you would each describe how you use the term awakening, what you're referring to, and if you use the term enlightenment, what you're referring to."

Tami Simon identifies a potential point of confusion regarding the terms "awakening" and "enlightenment." She seeks to clarify how her guests, A.H. Almaas and Henry Shukman, differentiate or use these terms, aiming for precision in their dialogue. This sets up a foundational discussion about terminology.

"So for me, it's sort of it's it's it's got to have some sense of just discovering and having sort of breakthroughs to me that I'm not just what I thought I was. I'm part of something much larger and I'm inseparable from it."

Henry Shukman describes his understanding of awakening as a process of discovery and breakthrough. He emphasizes that it involves realizing one is not solely defined by their ordinary sense of self but is fundamentally connected to something larger and inseparable from it. This quote captures his perspective on the transformative nature of awakening.

"Awakening is recognition that we are what we are, that is not the usual self. That there's more to us or something different about us. That is, because the usual self is our psychology and physicality and since the personality that we developed throughout history, or our awakening is recognition that we have what I call true nature."

A.H. Almaas defines awakening as a recognition of a "true nature" that extends beyond the conventional self, which he identifies as psychology, physicality, and personality. He posits that this recognition signifies a deeper reality within oneself, distinct from the egoic structure developed over time. This quote highlights his concept of "true nature."

"And I think so we can talk about different faces of awakening in different ways. One is what is the actual nature of reality, the best that we can know it on that sort of ultimate level. It shows itself in different ways, and we could talk about some of those ways. Sure. But then absolutely, as Hameed was saying, it's it never stops being a process itself. It's it's actually even while we may say it's unchanging, it's also constantly unfolding."

Henry Shukman elaborates on the multifaceted nature of awakening. He suggests that awakening involves understanding the ultimate nature of reality and that this process is ongoing, constantly unfolding even if the underlying reality is perceived as unchanging. This quote emphasizes the dynamic and evolving aspect of spiritual realization.

"And I think that's exactly as I was saying really, like I think we can drop into reality at different levels. We can, we can, the same way that we could know, you know, on the molecular level, on the atomic level, on the sub-sub-atomic particle level, on the level of forces and dynamics and cosmic forces and geological forces and so on. It's sort of like of like that this, this moment of our experience, we can know our experience on different levels, and I would say some of those levels, not just one, really, are kind of infused with a sense of love."

Henry Shukman draws an analogy between understanding reality at different scientific scales (molecular, atomic, sub-atomic) and experiencing awakening on various levels. He proposes that certain levels of experience are imbued with love, suggesting that love is an integral aspect of awakened reality, not just an emotional response. This quote connects the concept of different levels of awakening to the presence of love.

"And I think that's not often called out as one of the key sort of values of practice. It is exactly. I sometimes talk about practice as a as an arena where we can develop courage, but I think it's actually better put that it's about developing trust. I mean, courage may be in the mix as well, but courage may be a kind of form of trust that somehow we can ride over our fear where it's going to be okay, we're going to do it. But I think trust is a deeper way, way to put it."

Henry Shukman reframes the outcome of spiritual practice from developing courage to developing trust. He argues that trust is a more fundamental quality that allows one to navigate fear and uncertainty during spiritual development. This quote emphasizes the importance of trust as a core element of practice.