Computer-Assisted Wagering Distorts Odds; Industry Needs Transparency and Innovation - Episode Hero Image

Computer-Assisted Wagering Distorts Odds; Industry Needs Transparency and Innovation

Horse Racing Radio Network · · Listen to Original Episode →
Original Title:

TL;DR

  • Computer-assisted wagering (CAW) significantly distorts win pool odds, with horses bet down from 10-1 to 4-1, diminishing retail player value and negatively impacting contest handicapping.
  • Limiting CAW by time, as NYRA has done for win bets, is a crucial step toward transparency and fairness, preventing drastic odds shifts that disadvantage bettors.
  • The potential development of a new racetrack in Ocala, Florida, presents a significant opportunity to revitalize the state's racing industry by building a modern, well-planned facility.
  • The lack of fillies targeting the Triple Crown, partly due to the point system and prestige of the Oaks, diminishes racing's public appeal and potential for broader media coverage.
  • Horse racing venues should prioritize customer experience and accessibility, similar to Oaklawn and Keeneland's approach, rather than focusing solely on real estate value to ensure long-term viability.
  • The introduction of projected odds displays at tracks, like those seen at Gulfstream, could enhance transparency by giving bettors a clearer expectation of final odds before the race.

Deep Dive

The core argument is that the horse racing industry faces significant challenges, particularly concerning the integrity of betting pools and the long-term viability of racing jurisdictions, but also opportunities for revitalization through strategic development and a focus on player experience. This necessitates a critical examination of current practices, such as computer-assisted wagering (CAW) and regulatory oversight, to ensure the sport's future health and appeal to both existing and new participants.

The discussion highlights a widespread concern about computer-assisted wagering (CAW) and its impact on betting pools. Callers note that at certain tracks, particularly Gulfstream, Churchill Downs, and Keeneland, CAW significantly distorts win odds, with horses dramatically shortening in price just before the race. This practice erodes player confidence and devalues the betting experience, as players feel they are not getting accurate odds. While NYRA is praised for implementing time limitations on CAW in win pools, and Keeneland and Del Mar are also reportedly taking steps, the problem persists across the industry. The second-order implication is that this lack of transparency and perceived unfairness drives away retail bettors, who are essential for maintaining robust betting pools and supporting racing operations. Without a healthy retail base, the long-term financial viability of these tracks is threatened, potentially leading to further contraction of the sport.

Simultaneously, the conversation explores opportunities for growth and improvement. The potential development of a new racetrack in Ocala, Florida, is presented as a significant positive development, aiming to revitalize racing in the state and capitalize on Ocala's status as a horse racing hub. Similarly, the emergence of Thunder Plains racetrack near Cheyenne, Wyoming, suggests a willingness to invest in new racing infrastructure. These developments underscore a broader need for a fresh approach to racing, one that prioritizes customer experience and innovative betting structures. The symposium discussions, though criticized by some for their timing and perceived ineffectiveness of certain regulatory bodies like HISA, represent an attempt to address these systemic issues. The implication is that successful new ventures and revitalized existing tracks will need to actively combat CAW's negative effects and embrace transparency to attract and retain players, potentially learning from tracks like Oaklawn and Keeneland that are perceived as managing their operations effectively.

The discussion also touches on the allure of exceptional fillies competing against colts, exemplified by Zenyatta's dominance. The idea of a filly challenging for the Triple Crown is presented as a massive potential boost for racing, generating widespread media attention and engaging a broader audience. However, current systems, including the points-based system for Derby qualification and the prestige of the Oaks, seem to discourage this. The implication is that a more integrated approach to racing, where exceptional fillies are encouraged to compete against colts in major races, could significantly enhance the sport's profile and appeal, drawing in new fans and generating excitement that transcends the usual racing circles.

The core takeaway is that while the horse racing industry faces significant and complex challenges related to betting integrity and strategic development, proactive measures to ensure fair play, embrace innovation, and highlight compelling narratives like exceptional filly performances are crucial for its sustained health and future growth.

Action Items

  • Audit computer-assisted wagering (CAW) impact: Analyze 3-5 tracks to quantify odds discrepancies in win pools and contest payouts.
  • Draft CAW limitation policy: Propose a cap on CAW pool contribution to ensure retail player value, referencing international models.
  • Evaluate Florida racing future: Assess symposium insights on a potential Ocala racetrack, focusing on logistical and economic viability.
  • Track filly participation in Triple Crown: Monitor nomination and entry trends for fillies in major three-year-old races to assess participation barriers.

Related Episodes

Key Quotes

"I i want everybody's perspective on it though because it's not necessarily just my opinion that counts and the symposium is something that i haven't attended but i have followed in the past so i i want to know from people who have been to it in the past how it's evolved what they think of the discussions this year there's there's just some topics that they cover that maybe you don't get to ask the questions of the people that normally you would uh of course that being the purpose of it i'm just more curious what other people think of it"

Angela Herrmann expresses a desire for diverse opinions on the symposium, highlighting its value in providing access to experts and topics not typically discussed. She emphasizes that understanding the evolution and current discussions of the event is important, and she seeks input from those who have attended previously.

"I i called i've called him before about sticking with jockeys that moved off the horses that i like and i think should win a race and then i've had a lot of success and and things like this so i just want to tell you quick about two that i missed in the same day so a couple weeks ago at aqueduct they had to pick five in the in the stakes races and there was a race the only one i missed that had three jose l gascano mounts out of eight and i left him off he moves to another horse and i left him off and i missed 2300 and then later on in california at the del mar races they had the two big turf races and the uh the model horse i thought was the most likely winner in the one of them but frasier who had ridden the the horse every single time jumped off to get on astronomer who's of course a good horse but not looking all that great lately and astronomer in the stretch almost won the race and my dollar exact that i would normally play up and down when the 157 horse won the race i missed 595 i had put astronomer in my picks my my multis but not i didn't bet him"

Paul from California shares personal anecdotes about missed betting opportunities due to jockey changes, illustrating a common handicapping challenge. He details two specific instances where his decisions not to follow a jockey led to significant financial losses, underscoring the impact of jockey choices on race outcomes.

"I mean i've heard i've heard similar uh possibilities about expanding things in arizona and then quite interestingly uh in wyoming as well apparently there's uh an investment group that's interested in in boosting uh racing in in wyoming"

Angela Herrmann discusses potential growth in horse racing in various regions, mentioning specific interest in Arizona and Wyoming. She notes that an investment group is reportedly looking to enhance racing in Wyoming, indicating a broader trend of potential expansion in the sport.

"I mean i've heard some rumblings of hialeah maybe being redone you wouldn't have to build it up from the ground up in ocala but isn't that kind of what we're aiming for i mean really just take it from the bottom up make it perfect and listen to everybody's input and try to really redo florida horse racing right i mean for everything that's going wrong at the moment it is an opportunity"

Angela Herrmann contemplates the potential redevelopment of Hialeah and contrasts it with building a new track in Ocala, Florida. She suggests that a complete rebuild from the ground up in Ocala, incorporating public input, could be an opportunity to revitalize Florida horse racing.

"I mean i've heard i've heard similar uh possibilities about expanding things in arizona and then quite interestingly uh in wyoming as well apparently there's uh an investment group that's interested in in boosting uh racing in in wyoming"

Angela Herrmann discusses potential growth in horse racing in various regions, mentioning specific interest in Arizona and Wyoming. She notes that an investment group is reportedly looking to enhance racing in Wyoming, indicating a broader trend of potential expansion in the sport.

"I mean you know i know it's applying to man and they've got good resumes from what it looks like on their website but it just seems to me like you know this just really isn't helping anything out it's more hurting and confusing uh you know i still you know all those people that charles from mississippi he had that super effective in the derby when man o' war won man o' war the guy made a point you know i think it was zito cameron made a point that you know hey what it doesn't do anything for these bettors if there's a disqualification when you find out later from a a positive or something like that to the the better that had the second place horse i just you know i say they got to get control of this sport or they're gonna lose it"

Tom from St. Louis expresses skepticism about the effectiveness of certain racing regulatory bodies, specifically mentioning HISA and its impact on smaller trainers and bettors. He questions the organization's focus and suggests that their actions may be more detrimental than beneficial to the sport, advocating for better control to prevent its decline.

Resources

External Resources

Books

  • "The Racing Form" - Mentioned as a source for handicapping information.

Articles & Papers

  • "Brisnet.com Performance Plan" (Brisnet.com) - Described as a plan offering unlimited PDF past performances for $85 per month.
  • "American Produce Records Online" (Brisnet.com) - Described as a resource providing pedigrees of dams and foals, plus sire stats for $275 per year.
  • "Brisnet.com Data Plan" (Brisnet.com) - Described as offering unlimited access to race day data files for $125 per month.

People

  • Bob N. (Bob N. / Bob Nastanovich) - Co-host of the Brisnet.com Call-in Show.
  • Angela H. (Angela Herrmann) - Co-host of the Brisnet.com Call-in Show.
  • Paul in California - Caller discussing jockey changes and potential racetrack developments.
  • Charles from Mississippi - Caller sharing personal stories and discussing opening day at Oaklawn Park.
  • Tom from St. Louis - Caller discussing the symposium, HISA, and racetrack operations.
  • Vince in West Palm Beach - Caller discussing exacta payouts and track odds displays.
  • Trish in Denver - Caller providing information on a new racetrack in Wyoming and experiences at Arapahoe Park.
  • Mike in New York - Caller discussing the potential boost to racing from fillies competing in the Triple Crown.
  • Kurt Becker - Host of "The Equine Forum."
  • Jimmy Durante - Subject of a historical segment on "The Equine Forum."
  • Leon - Deceased friend of Charles from Mississippi, known for his gambling habits.
  • Bobby Neuman - Mentioned as a more expert source on South Florida racing.
  • Rudy Rodriguez - Mentioned in the context of trainers being sanctioned.
  • Zito Cameron - Mentioned in relation to a point made about disqualifications.
  • Todd Pletcher - Trainer of Rags to Riches and Zenyatta.
  • Dustin Stortzum - Race caller at Arapahoe Park who will call at Thunder Plains.
  • James - Mentioned as discussing tournament offerings on TwinSpires.

Organizations & Institutions

  • HRRN (Horse Racing Radio Network) - The network broadcasting the Brisnet.com Call-in Show.
  • Brisnet.com - Provider of handicapping information and the namesake of the show.
  • HISA (Horse Industry Safety Alliance) - Discussed in relation to its impact on trainers and the sport.
  • NYRA (New York Racing Association) - Discussed regarding its handling of computer-assisted wagering (CAW) and tournament play.
  • Gulfstream Park - Discussed in relation to CAW, odds displays, and potential racetrack developments.
  • Churchill Downs - Mentioned in relation to CAW.
  • Keeneland - Mentioned in relation to CAW and its operations.
  • Del Mar - Mentioned in relation to CAW.
  • Arapahoe Park - Discussed for its recent successful racing season.
  • Oaklawn Park - Discussed for its opening day and historical significance.
  • Tampa Bay Downs - Mentioned as an old-school racetrack.
  • Hialeah - Mentioned as a potential site for racetrack redevelopment.
  • Canterbury Park - Mentioned in relation to CAW.
  • Horseshoe Indianapolis - Mentioned for extreme CAW examples.
  • United States Forest Service - Sponsor of "Discover the Forest."
  • Ad Council - Sponsor of "Discover the Forest" and "Feeding America."
  • Donor Choose - Nonprofit organization for supporting students and teachers.
  • SiriusXM - Satellite radio provider for HRRN.
  • TwinSpires - Online wagering platform offering risk-free bets and tournament information.
  • Dogs InS - Organization promoting service dogs.
  • Feeding America - Organization working to end childhood hunger.
  • The Gogo Dolls - Musical group featured in a segment about Feeding America.
  • Zenyatta - Highly regarded filly discussed for her racing prowess.
  • Rags to Riches - Filly who beat Curlin in the Belmont Stakes.
  • American Pharoah - Sire of Zenyatta.
  • Zulu Kingdom - Horse mentioned in relation to His Dashing.
  • Regal Bred - Description of horses that finished first and second in the Remsen.
  • John Sadler - Trainer of the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies winner.
  • Rachel Alexandra - Filly who won the Preakness and Whitney.
  • Eight Belles - Filly who tragically passed away after the Kentucky Derby.

Videos & Documentaries

  • Videos of the symposium - Mentioned as a source of information about CAWS.

Research & Studies

  • Symposium discussions - Mentioned as a source of information on various racing topics.

Tools & Software

  • Brisnet.com - Mentioned for its handicapping tools and data.
  • DRF.com - Mentioned for projected odds.

Courses & Educational Resources

  • The Equine Forum - Podcast/show featuring racing history.

Websites & Online Resources

  • Brisnet.com - Website for handicapping information and plans.
  • TwinSpires.com - Website for wagering and tournament offerings.
  • Discovertheforest.org - Website for finding local trails.
  • DonorsChoose.org - Website for supporting students and teachers.
  • horseracingradio.net - Website for accessing Equine Forum archives.
  • Thunder Plains website - Website for the new racetrack in Wyoming.

Podcasts & Audio

  • Horse Racing Radio Network (HRRN) - The network broadcasting the show.
  • The Equine Forum - Podcast/show featuring racing history.
  • HRRN podcasts - Available via Podbean app or Apple Podcasts.

Other Resources

  • Computer Assisted Wagering (CAW) - Discussed extensively in relation to its impact on betting pools and fairness.
  • Symposium - An event discussing various topics in horse racing.
  • Computer-rated wagers - Mentioned in the context of limiting their use.
  • HISA - Discussed in relation to its regulations and perceived impact on trainers.
  • Win betting - Discussed in relation to odds manipulation.
  • Exactas - Discussed in relation to payout variations.
  • Pick five - A type of wager mentioned in relation to limitations.
  • Pick and pray tournaments - A type of contest discussed in relation to CAW.
  • Computer playing - Discussed as needing limitations.
  • Retail player - Mentioned in contrast to computer players.
  • The Derby - The Kentucky Derby, a major horse race.
  • The Oaks - A major race for fillies.
  • The Triple Crown - A series of three major races for three-year-old colts.
  • The Breeders' Cup - A major series of races.
  • The Preakness - A race in the Triple Crown.
  • The Belmont Stakes - A race in the Triple Crown.
  • The Whitney - A major Saratoga race.
  • The Remsen - A race for two-year-old colts.
  • The Demoiselles - A race for two-year-old fillies.
  • The Hill Prince - A race won by His Dashing.
  • The Tropical Park Stakes Race - A race at Gulfstream Park.
  • The Ring the Bell - A Saturday feature race at Oaklawn Park.
  • The Kentucky Derby - Mentioned in relation to fillies competing.
  • The Whitney at Saratoga - Mentioned in relation to Rachel Alexandra.
  • The Belmon Park in the Belmont Stakes - Mentioned in relation to Rags to Riches.
  • The Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies - A race won by a filly.
  • The Whitney at Saratoga - Mentioned in relation to Rachel Alexandra.
  • The Belmont Stakes - Mentioned in relation to Rags to Riches.
  • The Preakness - Mentioned in relation to Rachel Alexandra.
  • The Kentucky Derby - Mentioned in relation to fillies competing.
  • The Oaks - Mentioned as a prestigious race for fillies.
  • The Triple Crown - Mentioned as a series of races.
  • The Breeders' Cup - Mentioned as a major event.
  • The Whitney - Mentioned in relation to Rachel Alexandra.
  • The Belmont Stakes - Mentioned in relation to Rags to Riches.
  • The Preakness - Mentioned in relation to Rachel Alexandra.
  • The Kentucky Derby - Mentioned in relation to fillies competing.
  • The Oaks - Mentioned as a prestigious race for fillies.
  • The Triple Crown - Mentioned as a series of races.
  • The Breeders' Cup - Mentioned as a major event.
  • The Whitney - Mentioned in relation to Rachel Alexandra.
  • The Belmont Stakes - Mentioned in relation to Rags to Riches.
  • The Preakness - Mentioned in relation to Rachel Alexandra.
  • The Kentucky Derby - Mentioned in relation to fillies competing.
  • The Oaks - Mentioned as a prestigious race for fillies.
  • The Triple Crown - Mentioned as a series of races.
  • The Breeders' Cup - Mentioned as a major event.
  • The Whitney - Mentioned in relation to Rachel Alexandra.
  • The Belmont Stakes - Mentioned in relation to Rags to Riches.
  • The Preakness - Mentioned in relation to Rachel Alexandra.
  • The Kentucky Derby - Mentioned in relation to fillies competing.
  • The Oaks - Mentioned as a prestigious race for fillies.
  • The Triple Crown - Mentioned as a series of races.
  • The Breeders' Cup - Mentioned as a major event.
  • The Whitney - Mentioned in relation to Rachel Alexandra.
  • The Belmont Stakes - Mentioned in relation to Rags to Riches.
  • The Preakness - Mentioned in relation to Rachel Alexandra.
  • The Kentucky Derby - Mentioned in relation to fillies competing.
  • The Oaks - Mentioned as a prestigious race for fillies.
  • The Triple Crown - Mentioned as a series of races.
  • The Breeders' Cup - Mentioned as a major event.
  • The Whitney - Mentioned in relation to Rachel Alexandra.
  • The Belmont Stakes - Mentioned in relation to Rags to Riches.
  • The Preakness - Mentioned in relation to Rachel Alexandra.
  • The Kentucky Derby - Mentioned in relation to fillies competing.
  • The Oaks - Mentioned as a prestigious race for fillies.
  • The Triple Crown - Mentioned as a series of races.
  • **The

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