Healthy Masculinity Is Relationality -- Connection Over Stoicism

Huberman Lab · December 29, 2025 · Listen to Original Episode →

Original Title:

TL;DR

Healthy masculinity requires adaptability, integrating fierceness when necessary with tenderness, rather than adhering to rigid traditional stoicism that denies human vulnerability.
Relationality, the skill of deep connection with oneself and others, is crucial for human well-being, acting as an antidote to loneliness and addiction.
Men's self-esteem should be internally derived, based on inherent worth, not external performance, enabling accountability without succumbing to shame.
Effective communication in relationships involves subjective requests and "skilled" responses, prioritizing repair and mutual understanding over objective arguments.
Community, or "fraternities" for men, is vital for developing relational skills, finding purpose, and fostering a sense of belonging beyond individual achievement.
The absence of fathers, or emotional unavailability, can inflict deep wounds, impacting a man's capacity for healthy relationships and self-worth.
True strength lies in skillful emotional regulation and relational elegance, diffusing conflict and fostering connection rather than engaging in harsh confrontation.

Deep Dive

Men are facing a profound crisis of identity and connection due to the erosion of traditional masculine roles, leading to increased rates of anxiety, depression, and loneliness. This episode argues that true masculinity lies not in stoicism or dominance, but in "relationality"--the skill of fostering deep, authentic connection with oneself and others, which is essential for well-being and happiness. The implications are far-reaching, impacting men's ability to form healthy romantic relationships, maintain strong friendships, and develop robust self-esteem.

The core of healthy masculinity, as articulated by Terry Real, is the ability to be "skilled" rather than simply "hard" or "soft." This involves developing emotional intelligence and the capacity for vulnerability, not as a sign of weakness, but as the foundation for genuine connection. Traditional masculinity, characterized by stoicism and emotional repression, disconnects men from themselves and others, creating a "straightjacket" that is detrimental to their mental and physical health. This disconnection is a primary driver of addiction, which Real describes as a self-medication for the pain of loneliness. The path forward involves cultivating "relational joy," a deeper satisfaction than fleeting gratification, by being present, open, and giving in relationships.

A critical second-order implication is that men need to actively cultivate these relational skills, particularly through community with other men. The decline of informal male gatherings and the rise of individualistic pursuits have left many men isolated. Real emphasizes the importance of "fraternities"--supportive groups of men who offer honest feedback, accountability, and shared experience--as vital for developing healthy relating. This is not about reinforcing traditional dominance but about fostering mutual support and shared growth. The ability to ask for help, express needs clearly, and engage in "skillful fighting" and repair within relationships are essential skills that require practice and conscious effort. Furthermore, healthy self-esteem is framed as internal worthiness, not external performance, allowing men to accept responsibility for their actions without succumbing to shame. This internal resilience is crucial for navigating the complexities of modern life and relationships, ultimately leading to a more fulfilling and connected existence.

Action Items

Create a framework for assessing relational skills in men, focusing on 3-5 key indicators of healthy emotional expression and connection.
Implement a structured approach to conflict resolution within relationships, emphasizing "skilled" responses over reactive or "hard" approaches.
Audit personal communication patterns to identify instances of harshness and replace them with "loving firmness" in at least 3-5 challenging interactions.
Develop a personal "relationality toolkit" with 3-5 actionable strategies for fostering deeper connection and support with others.
Establish a regular practice of seeking and offering support, aiming for at least one instance per week to strengthen relational bonds.

Key Quotes

"What's going on is that the old role is shifted the sand is uh shifted under our feet and we're trying to figure out what the hell we are and if we're not going to be what our dads and granddads were what are we going to be and we're searching and we're grappling I gotta tell you the other thing that's going on is is somewhat in reaction to feminism and you know somebody said about my work women have had a revolution and now men have to deal with it it's like what are we supposed to do here and there's been a backlash uh there's been a resurgence in our country and around the globe of almost a celebration of some of the most difficult unattractive aspects of traditional masculinity and we're not sure what it means to be a man anymore and particularly young guys are grappling and um there are a lot of healthy examples saying okay here's the new territory let me let me show you what it looks like"

Terry Real explains that men are experiencing a crisis of identity due to shifting societal roles and a backlash against feminism. He notes that this confusion leads some to embrace traditional, often negative, aspects of masculinity, while others seek new, healthier models.

"The essence of traditional masculinity which didn't end in the 50s it's still with us very much today is stoicism the essence of being a man is being invulnerable the more invulnerable you are the more manly you are the more vulnerable you are the more girly you are to this day and being girly is not a good thing well there's some problems with that one is we are vulnerable as human beings that's a lie denying our vulnerability is a lie and so I see chronic anxiety depression everybody's in a state of do I measure up and you don't because what you're trying to measure up to isn't real"

Real argues that the traditional masculine ideal of invulnerability, or stoicism, is harmful because it denies a fundamental human truth: vulnerability. This denial, he states, leads to widespread anxiety and depression as men strive for an unattainable standard of perfection.

"What's missing in our culture generally is relationality what's missing in our culture is uh is the beauty of connection and look you follow the science i've been saying this for 40 years and now the science is really very clear being connected being intimate with yourself and with others uh that's what we humans are born for that's how we're designed we're pack pack animals and the lack of intimate connection uh is not only bad for us psychologically but i think it was vivic murthy you quoted uh it's as bad as smoking a pack and a half of cigarettes a day on your body we are born to be connected and related"

Terry Real emphasizes that a lack of "relationality," or connection, is a core deficit in modern culture. He supports this by referencing scientific findings that highlight the profound negative health impacts of social isolation, equating it to severe physical harm.

"The issue is this can you be big hearted and open and emotional and show up and be responsible and be giving the thing that hasn't changed for a lot of us guys is giving uh back in the 50s and it was stoic it's about me i show up and i'm responsible in ways that are younger guys are less responsible than our dads were that's all true but you know i go out and i fight dragons and i come home and where's my martini and slippers then the 60s came on and feminism and uh okay it's okay to have feelings it might even be okay to be a little bit vulnerable um but it's still about me and when i talk about progressive masculinity i want men who are big hearted strong connected and giving and that's missing both in the uh traditional patriarchal model and in many of the counterculture models"

Real defines progressive masculinity as a state of being big-hearted, strong, connected, and giving. He contrasts this with both traditional masculinity, which he sees as self-centered, and some counterculture models, arguing that true progress requires men to be both emotionally open and actively contributing to others.

"I have a saying and i may get into trouble but it's a broad generalization but i it clinically i like to say an angry woman is a woman who doesn't feel heard and so many men are like what is going on here my marriage isn't that bad but if you could just get her off my back i don't understand what the problem is uh and and we're hit with an angry well i'll double back on this but we're hit with an angry woman and we either push back or get defensive or we withdraw i have to lead men by the hand let me teach you something tell me why you're angry tell me what you would like let me give you unless it's jumping off the bridge i have a saying i know how you can disarm an angry woman in five seconds 50 of the time which is better than you're doing okay how do you do it give her what she wants let me ask you what's going on with you and do what i can to help out this is a skill that's brand new for our culture"

Terry Real posits that an angry woman often feels unheard and suggests that men can disarm this anger by actively listening and asking, "What do you need?" He frames this as a crucial, yet often unlearned, skill for men in relationships.

"The essence of the new masculinity to understand life as a human as relational relational and ecological i'm not above it i'm in it and i'm a steward of it it's in my interest to give to my biosphere that is wisdom"

Real articulates a vision for the "new masculinity" centered on understanding life as relational and ecological. He emphasizes that men should see themselves as part of a larger system, acting as stewards who contribute to their environment and communities because it is in their own best interest.

Resources

External Resources

Books

"Iron John" by Robert Bly - Mentioned as a book with brilliant insight about boys' relationship to their fathers.

Articles & Papers

"Fire together, wire together" (Carla Shatz) - Mentioned as data from a neuroscientist about brain plasticity in the first six years of life.

People

Terry Real - Guest, therapist, and expert on male emotional health and relationships.
Andrew Huberman - Host, professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
Esther Perel - Mentioned as a colleague and feminist therapist.
Carol Gilligan - Mentioned as a colleague and feminist therapist.
Bob Sopolsky - Mentioned as a colleague.
Dan Siegel - Mentioned as a neuroscientist whose model aligns with relational mindfulness.
Bayo - Mentioned as a mutual friend who provided guidance.
Gregory Bateson - Mentioned as an anthropologist and genius who called the separation from nature humankind's epistemological ontological mistake.
Margaret Mead - Mentioned as the wife of Gregory Bateson.
Frank Beach - Mentioned as a biopsychologist and endocrinologist after whom the "Beach Room" was named.
Robert Bly - Mentioned as the author of "Iron John" and a leader in the men's movement.
Martin the Crackle - Mentioned as a shaman who organized a weekend for adolescents and elders.
Jocko Willink - Mentioned as a podcast host whose content appeals to men seeking fraternity.
Peggy Pap - Mentioned as a family therapist and wife of Arthur Penn.
Arthur Penn - Mentioned as the husband of Peggy Pap and director of "Bonnie and Clyde."
Carla Shatz - Mentioned as a neuroscientist at Stanford.
Hillary Clinton - Mentioned for popularizing the concept of the first six years of life being critical for brain plasticity.
Bill Clinton - Mentioned in relation to the idea that one caring person is enough for a child's development.
Pia - Mentioned as a friend who defined intimacy as the conjunction of truth and love.
Alan - Mentioned as a friend who attended Al-Anon meetings.
Ed Tronick - Mentioned as an infant observational researcher who developed the concept of relationships as a dance of harmony, disharmony, and repair.
Barry Brazelton - Mentioned as an infant observational researcher.
Barbara Chapman - Mentioned as a graduate advisor and scientist.
River Phoenix - Mentioned as an actor in the movie "Stand By Me."
Homer Simpson - Mentioned as a character representing a certain type of male behavior.
Mighty Mouse - Mentioned in a discussion about hypothetical fight outcomes.
Superman - Mentioned in a discussion about hypothetical fight outcomes.
Bruce Springsteen - Mentioned as a rock star.
Belinda - Mentioned as Terry Real's wife.
Alexander - Mentioned as Terry Real's son.

Organizations & Institutions

Huberman Lab - Podcast name and website.
Stanford School of Medicine - Affiliation of Andrew Huberman.
Pro Football Focus (PFF) - Mentioned as a data source in a bad example.
NFL (National Football League) - Mentioned as a subject of discussion in a bad example.
New England Patriots - Mentioned as an example team in a bad example.
BetterHelp - Sponsor, online therapy service.
David - Sponsor, protein bar company.
AG1 - Sponsor, nutritional supplement.
Function - Sponsor, lab testing service.
Waking Up - Sponsor, meditation app.
The Real World: San Francisco - Mentioned as a television show that featured early gay male characters.
Maasai tribe - Mentioned as a group in Tanzania where Terry Real conducted a men's group.
Bloods and Crips - Mentioned as urban gangs whose teenagers participated in a shaman's event.
University of California, Berkeley - Mentioned in relation to the "Beach Room" and "Tolman Hall."
Gangs - Mentioned as a form of fraternity.
Al-Anon - Mentioned as a support group.
AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) - Mentioned as a 12-step program.

Websites & Online Resources

hubermanlab.com - Website for Huberman Lab podcast show notes.
drinkag1.com/huberman - URL for AG1 sponsor offer.
betterhelp.com/huberman - URL for BetterHelp sponsor offer.
davidprotein.com/huberman - URL for David sponsor offer.
functionhealth.com/huberman - URL for Function sponsor offer.
wakingup.com/huberman - URL for Waking Up sponsor offer.
YouTube - Mentioned as a platform for accessing content and fraternities.
Spotify - Mentioned as a platform for following the podcast.
Apple - Mentioned as a platform for following the podcast.
Protocolsbook.com - Website for Andrew Huberman's book.

Other Resources

Healthy Masculinity - Core topic of the podcast episode.
Relationality - Concept discussed as being missing in culture.
Psychological Patriarchy - Concept discussed as a straitjacket.
Stoicism - Mentioned as an essence of traditional masculinity.
Gratification vs. Relational Joy - Concepts discussed as different forms of pleasure.
Icarus Syndrome - Mentioned in relation to the absence of worthiness.
Adaptive Child - Concept representing learned coping mechanisms.
Wounded Child - Concept representing primitive, flooded parts of the self.
Wise Adult - Concept representing the prefrontal cortex's ability to think and reason.
Responsible Distance Taking - A relational skill discussed.
Feedback Wheel - A format for constructive criticism.
12-Step Meetings - Mentioned as a model for intimacy and fellowship.
Codependency - Mentioned in relation to P.M. Melody's book.
Intensity vs. Intimacy - Concepts discussed as substitutes.
Circadian Rhythms - Mentioned in relation to bright days and dark nights.
Y Chromosome - Discussed in a facetious theory about male behavior.
Fraternity - Discussed as a concept for male bonding and learning.
Community - Discussed as a vital need for men.
Harmony, Disharmony, and Repair - The rhythm of relationships described by Ed Tronick.
Protocols - Andrew Huberman's upcoming book title.
Neural Network Newsletter - Andrew Huberman's newsletter.