Channelling Addictive Natures Through Extreme Challenges for Growth

Deep Dive

The discussion begins with Spencer Matthews reflecting on his past behavior, specifically his excessive drinking, and how completing 30 marathons in 30 days in the desert served as a cathartic experience where much of his shame vanished. He notes that this achievement led him to re-evaluate his professional life, prompting a desire to move away from more superficial content towards projects that feel more meaningful and helpful. This realization, coupled with conversations with friends like Jake Humphrey, led to the creation of his podcast "Untapped," which aims to explore human potential. Matthews emphasizes that these extreme challenges make him feel alive and that adventure is crucial for breaking through life's mundanity, advocating for living life to the fullest in the present rather than delaying it.

Moving to a different topic, Spencer Matthews details his upcoming challenge: completing seven full-distance triathlons on seven continents in 21 days, a feat intended to set a new world record. He explains that this endeavor is also a fundraiser for James' Place, a charity focused on men's suicide prevention. Matthews highlights the purpose this charitable aspect provides, allowing him to use his platform to make a tangible difference for men in crisis.

The conversation then shifts to the importance of adventure, drawing on an anecdote about Norwegian explorer Arlen Kaga. Kaga's perspective is that adventure is vital to prevent sinking into life's mundane routines, such as child-rearing or working to earn a living, and to avoid looking back later in life with regret for not having lived fully. Matthews agrees, acknowledging that while he is fortunate to have the resources to undertake such challenges, the underlying drive to live life to the fullest is a personal one.

Spencer Matthews discusses his past desire for parental approval, explaining that he once worked in the city for three and a half years, a job he hated, primarily to emulate his brother James, who he perceived as more morally upright and high-achieving. He states that this desire to be more like his brother, even though it didn't feel authentic to him, was a significant motivator. He clarifies that while this still influences him to a small degree, his current primary drivers are the opinions of a select group of people he deeply cares about, including his wife, children, parents, and a few close friends. Matthews contrasts this with his reality TV background, where he felt pressure to be liked by everyone, a pursuit he now recognizes as impossible and personality-diluting.

The discussion delves into Spencer Matthews' experience with shame and excessive drinking. He recounts an interview with Al Roker, whose essay on sobriety mirrored his own experiences with hiding alcohol consumption, such as drinking rum or whiskey in the morning from hidden bottles. Matthews expresses how this resonated deeply with him, leading him to reach out to Roker for a conversation on his show. He describes the profound shame and the lies that accompany such behavior, particularly lying to loved ones about early drinking.

Moving to a related topic, Spencer Matthews addresses the concept of shame and its relationship to his past drinking habits. He shares that completing the 30 marathons was a pivotal moment where much of his shame vanished. He attributes this to a significant sense of achievement, especially for someone who previously felt like a "loser" and had not achieved much. Matthews reflects on a specific night where he felt like a loser after drinking a bottle of whiskey alone, realizing he risked losing his wife, Vogue, if he continued down that path. He recounts a friend's intervention that night, which he initially found embarrassing but later recognized as a crucial moment. He contrasts this past self with his current self, expressing greater happiness and a desire for continued learning and growth.

The conversation then explores victim mentality and the wake-up call that shifted Spencer Matthews' mindset. He identifies blame as a key indicator of suffering and recalls his former agent, John Knoll, confronting him about his excessive drinking. This led him to seek help from addiction specialist Chip Somers. Matthews recounts an initial meeting where Somers immediately detected his alcohol consumption, despite Matthews' attempt to hide it. He describes his six months of abstinence as one of the best periods of his life, attributing some of his commitment to wanting to impress Somers. However, he also notes that he initially blamed others, including John Knoll and his deceased brother Mike, for his issues.

Spencer Matthews expresses a nuanced view on addiction, stating he does not believe in the AA model of complete powerlessness, as he feels individuals have the ability to control their behavior. He identifies as having an addictive nature but not necessarily being addicted to drugs and alcohol, citing his ability to go years without drinking and to moderate his intake when he does drink. He views alcohol similarly to food, suggesting that occasional unhealthy consumption is acceptable within a generally healthy lifestyle. Matthews believes his addictive nature has now channeled into his passion for extreme challenges, which he views not as an addiction but as a positive outlet for his energy.

The discussion then turns to the importance of deep rest, with Fearne Cotton admitting to feeling tired and struggling to stop working. Matthews acknowledges that pushing oneself requires a deliberate effort to rest and suggests that for doers, forcing oneself to stop and do nothing can be mentally challenging. He shares that he is generally good at taking breaks, unlike his wife Vogue, who he describes as also busy and prone to reorganizing things rather than simply resting.

Spencer Matthews discusses his current workload, which includes managing several businesses like "Untapped" and "Clean Coat," developing new products, fundraising, and training for his triathlons. He states that his plate is as full as he desires and that he could fill every hour of the day with work. He notes that while he typically sleeps well for about eight hours, he has recently experienced unusual sleeplessness for four nights, finding it difficult to fall asleep even when trying. He plans to speak with a therapist about this issue, as it is not related to stress or worry.

The conversation then touches on a disturbing Netflix documentary about Ed Gein, which Matthews watched despite his aversion to negative content. He describes the documentary as the most depraved thing he has ever seen and questions its legality and age appropriateness. He contrasts his reaction with his wife Vogue's, who he notes cannot watch even mildly negative content. Matthews expresses concern about his recent sleeplessness, wondering if watching such content might be a contributing factor.

Spencer Matthews contrasts his relationship with Made in Chelsea with that of his friend Jamie Laing. While Laing has made peace with the show and sees it as a launchpad, Matthews regrets certain aspects and feels he has had to "dispel" the show's influence to avoid looking back with dread. He enjoyed the early series, finding them original and fun, but felt the show became "toxic" as storylines became less real and producers manipulated emotions. Matthews states he is thick-skinned and not overly bothered by negative comments, unlike some others in the public eye. He also notes that the show accentuated a version of himself that he did not always feel was real.

The discussion revisits Spencer Matthews' relationship with Jamie Laing, highlighting their 20-22 year friendship. Matthews expresses deep respect for Laing, describing their bond as akin to brothers, which involves significant arguments due to the depth of their connection. He likens their intense relationship to that of deeply loving married couples who have fiery arguments because the relationship