Culinary Curiosities: Spices, Salads, and Heritage Produce
TL;DR
- Sichuan peppercorns, derived from berry husks, trigger touch and vibration receptors via alpha hydroxy sanshool, creating a numbing, tingling "ma" sensation distinct from chili heat.
- The "mala" combination of Sichuan peppercorn's "ma" and chili's heat is a signature numbing-spicy effect, found in dishes like mapo tofu and chili crisp oil.
- Alpha hydroxy sanshool in Sichuan peppercorns is fat-soluble, best extracted by toasting and infusing into hot oil, but its numbing effect decreases with acid exposure.
- Salads can be centered on vegetables rather than leaves, incorporating hearty elements like grains or legumes with rich dressings, as exemplified by ginger roasted kabocha.
- Hedy McKinnon's "linger" cookbook captures moments in time, with recipes conceived, cooked, served, and photographed in real-time, reflecting immediate cravings and market availability.
- Arthur Street Kitchen's organic growth through word-of-mouth, pre-social media, fostered community and connections, a stark contrast to today's rapid, hyped trends.
- The "never ending tahini sauce" concept involves building flavor over time by adding ingredients like oils, herbs, and chilies, creating a complex, infused base for roasted vegetables.
Deep Dive
This episode of "Good Food" explores the multifaceted world of beloved comfort foods and culinary curiosities, highlighting how simple ingredients can inspire complex dishes and create memorable dining experiences. The discussion spans from the celebratory nature of pancakes and the art of salad creation to the scientific nuances of spices and the heritage behind artisanal produce.
Khushbu Shah, a contributing editor for Food & Wine, guides listeners through Los Angeles's best pancake offerings, emphasizing how pancakes act as a focal point for gatherings, akin to a celebratory cake. Her exploration reveals a spectrum of pancake styles, from the classic crispy-edged buttermilk pancake at Cafe Taberna to the unique textures of yeasted pancakes at Cafe Tropical and the chewy, savory cornmeal-based pancakes at Yang's Kitchen. The implication here is that while pancakes are a simple dish, their preparation and ingredients offer a rich canvas for culinary innovation and personal preference, transforming a breakfast staple into a truly memorable experience.
Hetty Lui McKinnon, author of "Linger," challenges the notion of salads as solitary meals, advocating for them as communal centerpieces that foster connection. She shares insights on building flavorful, vegetable-centric dishes that move beyond leafy greens, like her ginger roasted kabocha with black rice, illustrating how hearty ingredients and balanced dressings can create satisfying, shareable meals. McKinnon's approach underscores the idea that food, particularly when shared, builds community and creates lasting memories, echoing her past experience with her word-of-mouth business, Arthur Street Kitchen. This perspective suggests that the act of preparing and sharing food is as significant as the food itself in strengthening social bonds.
Molecular biologist Nik Sharma delves into the science behind Sichuan peppercorns, explaining that their signature numbing sensation, known as "mala," is derived from a molecule called alpha-hydroxy sanshool. This molecule interacts with touch and vibration receptors in the mouth, creating a unique tingling effect that, when combined with chili heat, defines Sichuan cuisine. Sharma's explanation highlights how understanding the molecular basis of flavor can unlock new culinary possibilities, as demonstrated by his innovative pasta dish with a creamy lemon-Sichuan peppercorn sauce, which marries Californian citrus with the distinctive numbing spice. This scientific lens reveals that flavor is a complex interplay of aroma, taste, texture, and even emotion, suggesting that a deeper understanding of food's components can lead to more profound culinary appreciation.
The episode also features a segment on artisanal apples by Pablo Milberg and Ryan Macavoy of Sequoia Apples, who are cultivating heirloom varieties on a historic farm. Their commitment to allowing trees to grow naturally, without irrigation, results in smaller, more flavorful apples, connecting consumers to heritage agricultural practices. Similarly, Renata Bomb of RB's Ranch discusses the labor-intensive process of harvesting and shelling organic macadamia nuts, emphasizing the dedication required to bring these high-quality products to market. These segments underscore the value of heritage produce and the dedication of small-scale farmers in preserving unique flavors and traditions, suggesting that supporting such producers is key to maintaining agricultural diversity and culinary heritage.
Action Items
- Audit 3-5 pancake recipes: Identify core ingredients and preparation methods for flavor profiles (e.g., yeasted, cornmeal, buckwheat).
- Analyze 3-5 salad recipes: Categorize dressings by acid-fat-spice components and identify common vegetable bases beyond leafy greens.
- Track 5-10 Sichuan peppercorn dishes: Note preparation methods (toasting, oil infusion) and acid presence to understand numbing sensation impact.
- Measure 3-5 apple varieties: Document flavor notes (e.g., cherry-like, pear-like) and shelf stability for potential product development.
- Evaluate 3-5 macadamia nut processing steps: Identify key bottlenecks and potential efficiencies in shelling and cleaning for scalability.
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View Episode Notes →Key Quotes
"there's dishes that you can happily eat solo you know crush a burger with some fries or like a soup with grilled cheese like those are great solo things but something about pancakes is you want to eat it with other people at least i do like i never have the urge to just solo crush a stack of pancakes there's something about it that just feels like a special reason to gather"
Khushbu Shah explains that pancakes are inherently a communal food, unlike many other dishes that are perfectly enjoyable when eaten alone. This sentiment suggests that pancakes evoke a sense of celebration and togetherness, making them ideal for sharing.
"i personally really love a you know buttermilk pancake with like a crispy edge so that's where this actually all sort of started for me i was like on the hunt for a pancake like that in particular i actually personally also really love a cracker barrel pancake it's a chain that i grew up very near and they do a really lovely buttermilk pancake that has that crispy golden edge"
Khushbu Shah describes her personal preference for buttermilk pancakes with a crispy edge, drawing a connection to her childhood experience with Cracker Barrel pancakes. This highlights a specific textural and flavor profile that she sought out in her quest for the best pancakes.
"the central theme is is this vegetable that's the centerpiece something hearty like a legume or a grain or you know like cereal and then there's this very rich deep dressing"
Hetty Lui McKinnon explains her approach to creating salads, emphasizing that the vegetable is the primary focus, supported by a hearty base like legumes or grains, and complemented by a rich dressing. This principle guides her recipe development, moving beyond traditional leafy greens.
"for dressing i mean there always has to be an acid of course there also always has to be some sort of fat but i don't stop there i mean i think that i really love bringing in touches of spice the ginger adds a lot of warmth a bit of heat too but not overwhelming and there's you know garlic a bit of sugar like sugar to me is i don't put it in every single dressing but often it's presence just it kind of just mellows out any sort of if it's over acidic or over oily the sugar is just as a bit of mellowness"
Hetty Lui McKinnon outlines her fundamental principles for creating salad dressings, which include an acid and a fat, but also incorporate elements of spice, garlic, and sugar. She notes that sugar, in particular, can mellow out dressings that might be too acidic or oily.
"there's a molecule in the husk which is called alpha hydroxy sanshool and this molecule it actually engages with receptors that are present in the mouth that detect touch and vibration so what's happening inside your mouth is this buzzing tingling sensation which almost feels like a gentle vibration and in mandarin this is called ma which translates to numbing"
Nik Sharma explains that the numbing sensation of Sichuan peppercorns, known as "ma" in Mandarin, is caused by a molecule called alpha hydroxy sanshool. This molecule interacts with touch and vibration receptors in the mouth, creating a tingling, buzzing feeling.
"the trees look like what the original apple trees apple forest looks like the original apple forest is located in kazakhstan and the trees are all different all wild they're big ones they're small ones they were planted these trees but for more than 15 years they're not being irrigated and we are keeping them that way because apples are smaller and more flavorful"
Pablo Milberg describes the unique appearance of the apple trees at Sequoia Apples, comparing them to the original apple forests in Kazakhstan. He explains that by not irrigating the trees, they produce smaller, more flavorful apples, contributing to a wild forest aesthetic.
Resources
External Resources
Books
- "Tenderheart" by Hetty Lui McKinnon - Mentioned in relation to her approach to vegetable-centric cooking and weaving in personal relationships.
- "Linger: Salads, Sweets, and Stories to Savor" by Hetty Lui McKinnon - Mentioned as her latest cookbook, focusing on shared meals and vegetable-centered recipes.
Articles & Papers
- "The best pancakes in LA" (Los Angeles Times) - Mentioned as the publication where Khushbu Shah wrote about her favorite pancake spots.
People
- Khushbu Shah - Contributing editor for Food & Wine, mentioned for her expertise on finding the best pancakes in Los Angeles.
- Hetty Lui McKinnon - Author and culinary figure, discussed for her philosophy on salads as shared meals and her cookbook "Linger."
- Nik Sharma - Molecular biologist and cookbook author, featured for his scientific approach to flavor and his work with America's Test Kitchen.
- Evan Kleiman - Host of "Good Food," mentioned as the interviewer and host of the podcast.
- Pablo Milberg - Co-grower of Sequoia Apples, discussed for his unique apple varieties.
- Ryan Macavoy - Co-grower of Sequoia Apples, mentioned alongside Pablo Milberg.
- Renata Bomb - Grower of macadamia nuts at RB's Ranch, featured for her organic macadamia nuts.
- Dan Pashman - Host of "The Sporkful" podcast, briefly mentioned as a reference for food-related content.
Organizations & Institutions
- Good Food - Podcast where the discussions took place.
- KCRW - Public radio station hosting "Good Food," mentioned in relation to listener support and programming.
- America's Test Kitchen - Culinary organization where Nik Sharma is a culinary resident.
- Sequoia Apples - Growers of unique apple varieties, mentioned for their presence at the Mar Vista Farmers Market.
- RB's Ranch - Grower of macadamia nuts, mentioned for their presence at various farmers markets.
- The Sporkful - Podcast mentioned as a source for food-related content.
Websites & Online Resources
- kcrw.com/goodfood - Website where recipes and additional content from "Good Food" are available.
- kcrw.com/give - Website for listener donations to KCRW.
- Substack - Platform where "Good Food" host Evan Kleiman shares content.
- Instagram - Social media platform mentioned in relation to connecting with guests and businesses.
Other Resources
- Sichuan peppercorns - Spice discussed for its unique numbing and tingling sensation, its molecular composition, and its use in cooking.
- Mala - The combination of numbing (ma) and spicy (la) flavors characteristic of Sichuan cuisine.
- Ma - The Mandarin term for the numbing sensation caused by Sichuan peppercorns.
- Alpha hydroxy sanshool - The molecule in Sichuan peppercorns responsible for the numbing and tingling sensation.
- Capsaicin - The molecule in chilies responsible for heat.
- Piperine - The molecule in black and white pepper responsible for heat.
- Bisquick - Pancake mix mentioned in a personal anecdote about childhood cooking.
- Cracker Barrel - Restaurant chain mentioned for its buttermilk pancakes.
- Golden Delicious apples - Apple variety mentioned as being available at the Mar Vista Farmers Market.
- Arkansas Black apples - Apple variety mentioned as being grown by Sequoia Apples.
- Jonagold apples - Apple variety mentioned as being grown by Sequoia Apples.
- Macadamia nuts - Nuts discussed for their cultivation and processing by RB's Ranch.
- Oreo stuffed pancakes - A specific type of pancake mentioned at The Griddle Cafe.
- Brown sugar baked bananas, caramel, walnuts - Toppings for pancakes mentioned at The Griddle Cafe.
- Sweet potato fries - Side dish mentioned in relation to John O'Groats.
- Fried chicken - Side dish recommended with pancakes at Alta Adams.
- Omelet - Side dish recommended with pancakes at Clark Street Diner.
- Cinnamon roll - Baked good mentioned as a potential pairing at Friends & Family.
- Fluffy scrambled eggs - Side dish mentioned at Cafe কৃতজ্ঞ.
- Salads - A central theme discussed by Hetty Lui McKinnon, with emphasis on their versatility and potential for sharing.
- Ginger roasted kabocha with black rice and ginger miso dressing - A specific salad recipe discussed by Hetty Lui McKinnon.
- Whole roasted cauliflower with dill - A specific salad recipe discussed by Hetty Lui McKinnon.
- French onion salad - A specific salad recipe discussed by Hetty Lui McKinnon.
- Black eyed peas - Ingredient discussed for its cultural significance and use in New Year's dishes.
- Bok choy - Asian green mentioned as a pairing with black eyed peas.
- Chili crisp vinaigrette - Dressing mentioned for a black eyed pea dish.
- Vegan prosperity toss - A dish prevalent in Chinese Malaysian Singaporean culture, adapted with pomegranates.
- Artichokes - Vegetable discussed for its versatility and use in a "never ending tahini sauce" salad.
- Never ending tahini sauce - A versatile sauce recipe discussed by Hetty Lui McKinnon.
- Dippy salads - A category of salads with a saucy base and roasted vegetables, suitable for dipping with bread.
- Pancakes - A primary focus of the episode, with various types and preparations discussed.
- Classic buttermilk pancake - A traditional style of pancake.
- Yeasted pancake - A fluffy pancake made with yeast.
- Cornmeal pancake - A pancake made with cornmeal, often with savory notes.
- Oat flour pancakes - Pancakes made with oat flour, mentioned in relation to Salt's Cure.
- Buckwheat pancakes - Pancakes made with buckwheat flour, mentioned in relation to Friends & Family.
- Blueberry pancakes - A classic diner-style pancake mentioned at Clark Street Diner.
- Stuffed pancakes - Pancakes with fillings, mentioned at The Griddle Cafe.
- Seven green granola pancakes - A pancake variety with granola folded into the batter, mentioned at John O'Groats.
- Macadamia nuts - Nuts discussed for their cultivation and processing by RB's Ranch.
- Toast - A simple food item mentioned in relation to "The Sporkful" podcast.
- Pasta with a creamy lemon sichuan peppercorn sauce - A dish created by Nik Sharma to illustrate the use of Sichuan peppercorns.
- Cacio e pepe - Italian pasta dish mentioned as inspiration for Nik Sharma's pasta dish.
- Five spice - A spice blend that often contains Sichuan peppercorns.
- Mapo tofu - Classic Sichuan dish that uses Sichuan peppercorns.
- Dan dan noodles - Classic Sichuan dish that uses Sichuan peppercorns.
- Compound chicken - Classic Sichuan dish that uses Sichuan peppercorns.
- Chili crisp oil - Condiment that often uses Sichuan peppercorns.