Interdependence, Not Independence, Defines True Freedom and Success

Key Quotes

"The American ideal of what success is is a very isolating one. You know, we really uphold the idea of independence as a measure of success, which is kind of fundamentally antithetical to what it means to be a person. We are not independent; we're not, you know, we're not turtles where our mom, like, lays a bunch of eggs on the beach and then is like, you know, peace out, good luck with the seagulls. We don't raise ourselves. We don't care for ourselves. We don't acquire the things we need to live like food and shelter and, you know, water on our own. We are inherently interdependent animals. Like, biologically, that's who we are."

Mia Birdsong argues that the American emphasis on independence as a measure of success is inherently isolating and contradicts our biological nature as interdependent beings. Birdsong uses the analogy of turtles to illustrate how humans, unlike some other species, require collective care and support for survival, which is at odds with the cultural ideal of self-reliance.

"The etymological root of the word friendship and the word freedom is a Sanskrit word that means beloved. And just that in and of itself, I was like, oh, friendship and freedom, they used to like sit together, right? They like came from the same womb. And I was just like, I don't know how to think about that, but yes, like my spirit just said yes to that information."

Mia Birdsong shares a fascinating etymological connection, explaining that the Sanskrit root for both "friendship" and "freedom" means "beloved." Birdsong found this insight deeply resonant, suggesting a historical link between these two concepts that challenges modern interpretations of both.

"The other rabbit hole I went down was thinking about what I had learned and what kind of gets promoted as freedom in America and that it is deeply about independence. It is about again, like getting enough resources so that you can get everything you need through transaction and not relationship. A hallmark of American freedom is that you can do whatever the fuck you want and not be responsible for or accountable to anybody. And as I thought about that, I was like, oh, that's like actually the opposite of freedom."

Mia Birdsong critiques the common American understanding of freedom as pure independence and the ability to act without accountability. Birdsong posits that this transactional view, where one can acquire all needs without relying on others, is paradoxically the opposite of true freedom.

"The transformative power of asking for help. Something many of us struggle with. Why she thinks the idea of bootstrapping or going it alone is a kind of self-hatred. It's a provocative idea and much more."

Dan Harris introduces Mia Birdsong's provocative idea that the concept of "bootstrapping" or going it alone can be a form of self-hatred. Harris highlights Birdsong's exploration of the transformative power of asking for help, a concept many individuals find challenging.

"The conditions make it very difficult for us to have time, energy, knowledge, and like reinforcing experience of being in connected relationship with each other. So one of the things that I say so much more to people now is like, if this is hard, even though this is who we are, right? We do not, it's like we are air-breathing creatures. If we had to survive in the ocean, like it would be hard, right? So even though this is who we are, we struggle with it, and that we have to recognize that so that we don't feel like, you know, we're failing at something that we should be good at."

Mia Birdsong explains that modern societal conditions actively hinder our ability to form and maintain deep relationships, making the practice difficult even though connection is fundamental to human nature. Birdsong emphasizes the importance of recognizing these systemic challenges to avoid self-blame and foster self-compassion when relationship-building feels arduous.

"I want to say just early enough in here, I'm aware that words like relationships and community can come off as soft or clichéd or anodized or meaningless. That's the way they came off for me for many, many years. But there is a growing body of research and thought that strongly suggests that these are actually the critical skills for health, for happiness, and as I mentioned before, for success."

Dan Harris acknowledges the potential for terms like "relationships" and "community" to sound cliché or insignificant, a sentiment he previously shared. However, Harris points to a growing body of research that underscores the critical importance of these elements for overall health, happiness, and even success.